Islamofascism?

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Pakistan politician in newspaper said "If I have nukes I would have nuked Holland"

Don't think USA is safe If they nuke Holland or Europe. They might have a coordinate wrong and it lands in USA

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I don't know if you have been fighting in World War 2.

My grandfather did. Till his death he went to schools to warn the kids of the immanent danger of fascism that is still rampant.

My grandfather was very political trained and sharp. He saw the danger, and I feel this is a very good thread [not video game, it's real]

I visited Berlin when they took the Wall down. And I saw many Germans shouting "Heil Hitler" and it was no joke and felt horrible

So you are correct those were not Muslims. But they are humans. So they are at least as capable to do the same.

It''s not about language correctness. It's about a danger lurking around and arise anytime

Turkey monster almost declared Holland war recently because what...we disagreed with him on something minor [his hair color I think]

Pakistan politician in newspaper said "If I have nukes I would have nuked Holland"

Don't think USA is safe If they nuke Holland or Europe. They might have a coordinate wrong and it lands in USA

These are reality checks happening. If leaders in charge threaten like this, which happens a lot. One day they will do it.
[Kids play video games and loose feeling of reality. They became older generals with unnoticed dementia and boom bomb is flying. That is reality we face now.]

All starts with a thought, concentrates in words and gets followed up with actions

So Muslims are bad, because Muslims are human, and Hitler was human too? Sure, why not?

 

[stvdv]

@AudieWe have had our differences regarding China and your people.
But one thing I love about China is, dark-aged Theocracy and Fascism shall never triumph there!

Well in many ways the system of an economy dominated by state-run or -affiliated corporations combined with a single-party state is very similar to fascist systems of government.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/02/china-surveillance/552203/
China's Surveillance State Should Scare Everyone
The country is perfecting a vast network of digital espionage as a means of social control—with implications for democracies worldwide.

I don't know how far China is exactly with this, but I would say this looks like "This is Big Brother is watching you has been worked out in detail"

In short: Looks like a video game, but seems to be reality (soon). China was on my "not to go list". Knowing this it will stay there:
Every step you make is recorded. You get points if you visit your parents regular. Buying online: alcohol minus points, diapers plus points.
Facial recognition works perfect. Better don't walk through red, before you arive home the bill is already there.
Beware posting online. Should not be against state recommendation else you guessed right "minus points"

Not sure how much has been implemented yet. But I won't be surprised it will eventually happen

 

[stvdv]

So Muslims are bad, because Muslims are human, and Hitler was human too? Sure, why not?

No you twisted my words; maybe my words were not clear enough for you

Fascism is bad. Hitler was a human. Muslims are humans. Humans create fascism. Any human. We need to watch out for fascism

Just googled and saw that USA is on many sites said to be the only country close to "Fascist Country" in the moment

So, if true, then better be more worried about USA then about Muslims

Not sure if true. Just googled it today = America and fascism:
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm
https://eand.co/why-didnt-americans-take-fascism-seriously-until-it-was-too-late-445d2e4c387a

 

[England my lionheart]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism

I ran across this term today, and honestly didn't know this was a thing? What do you think about this term, do you think it has any merit, and is it relevant when discussing fascism in a broader sense, in comparison to Islam?

I'm definitely no fan of Islam or Christianity or their books, I would say they are both easy donkeys to ride into fanaticism but if every follower of both were fascists we would surely be in a world of ****.

That being said I think fascism can be seen in the Muslim brotherhood from its inception all the way through to the plo to what's happening in palestine, the hamas charter for instance is/was very simmilar to a fascist pamphlet Imo.

Hassan Al banana who founded the Muslim brotherhood,sayyid qutb,(milestones and in the shadow of the quran are must reads) and the grand mufti of Jerusalem Muhammed amin Al husseini who was the instigator of the violence that would become what Palestine is today.

So although I agree that the word "islamofacism" is usable to describe some elements of Islam its too wide as paintbrush even though I would be bbqed more than once according to their book.

 

[Deidre]

It seems to me to be a term used by those who want to criticize a specific form of religious fundamentalism while sparing their own form of religious fundamentalism from the same criticisms, otherwise why wouldn't the term "religious fundamentalism" itself suffice?

This is a valid point, however, from growing up in a Catholic household, and having ''fundie'' friends, the term fundamentalist can also mean when someone follows a religion, literally. Well, maybe that would mean in Islam, there would be followers who don't cherry pick the positive parts, but instead embrace all of the negative, barbaric sounding parts, as well. I'll have to think about this a little more. lol

 

[Spiderman]

Well in many ways the system of an economy dominated by state-run or -affiliated corporations combined with a single-party state is very similar to fascist systems of government.

"Fascism is a religion" - Benito Mussolini

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Apparently, Islamofascism need not be thought of as being intrinsic to Islam. That most likely won't stop some folks from arguing that it is, though.

So let me guess: All of the Qur'an inspired atrocities committed in the name of Islam have nothing to do with Islam, right?

 

[Sunstone]

So let me guess: All of the Qur'an inspired atrocities committed in the name of Islam have nothing to do with Islam, right?

So let me guess. You cannot understand that those by themselves do not constitute Islamofascism because....?

 

[Spiderman]

This is a valid point, however, from growing up in a Catholic household, and having ''fundie'' friends, the term fundamentalist can also mean when someone follows a religion, literally. Well, maybe that would mean in Islam, there would be followers who don't cherry pick the positive parts, but instead embrace all of the negative, barbaric sounding parts, as well. I'll have to think about this a little more. lol

Sometimes psychopathic, cruel, sadistic talk cannot be justified through words of love and peace.

That would be like Trump talking about how his enemies will be tortured, butchered, and mutilated this life or the next, and then saying, "but I'm all about love and peace baby!"

 

[Spiderman]

Completely false. You spam my threads with quasi nerd fascist tactics, trying to spamm them out.

Your incessant verbage here merely demonstrates what a farce you, /and others', actually are at meaning something real.

I have seen Pew survey find all Muslim-majority nations polled have a negative opinion of Jews and most violent attacks on Jews in Western Europe comes from people of Arab/Muslim heritage. Fascist Italy had the same view towards Jews. Let's not pretend this wasn't behind all Arabs ganging up on Israel in the six day war, the Yom Kippur war, the Lebanon civil war, and the incessant war between Israelis (Jews) and Arabs (Muslims), which consists of incessant anti-Semitic (anti-Jewish) propaganda and hate that resembles Nazi Germany.

Pew surveys show the majority of Muslims from Muslim-majority countries are anti-semetic (by semetic I'm speaking in the context of Jewish)! Mussolini's "Doctrine of Fascism" was very spiritual, worked with the Pope, defended Abrahamic Monotheism, kept prayer in schools, outlawed free-speech, made profanity and blasphemy a public crime, crushed liberalism, crushed secularism, pretty sure he outlawed abortion, voiced his disapproval of contraceptives, said women should stay home and care for kids rather than work, disapproved of divorce, closed down wine shops, night clubs, pornography, and places of immorality! I'm guessing he had a forced dressed code for women as well!

My point being, Fascist Italy was a religious Theocracy that resembled Saudi-Arabia in many ways. It contained harsh Religious laws, oppression of free-speech, attacks against secularism, misogyny, attacks against liberalism, anti-Semitism, persecution of homosexuals, bigotry, hate, and bullying of opponents.

Sorry that my passion for freedom, love, women's equality, and social justice sounds Fascist to you!

 

[Danny1988]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism

I ran across this term today, and honestly didn't know this was a thing? What do you think about this term, do you think it has any merit, and is it relevant when discussing fascism in a broader sense, in comparison to Islam?

Islam is fascist, it's founder Mohammad taught his followers that they must conquer the whole world by the sword.

He led by example, he personally beheaded over 900 people, he terrorized villages and pillaged them and forced them to convert to Islam. He also had sex with children, so that makes him a pedophile.

Islam doesn't tolerate any other religions, the Koran teaches that if a person refuses to convert to Islam they must be beheaded.

So the term Islamofascism is very appropriate for the Islamic ideology, it's not a religion it's actually a political movement seeking to dominate the world by the use of violence and terrorism. So it is pure fascism

 

[Deidre]

If you read the Qur'an, then you'd see that Muhammad taught that no one should be coerced into following Islam.

“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)

 

[Spiderman]

If you read the Qur'an, then you'd see that Muhammad taught that no one should be coerced into following Islam.

“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)

Yes, there are such verses, and I'm glad they exist.

However, when other verses are calls to violence against Idolaters and say "Take no Jews or Christians as your friends", and gruesome tortures in store for those who oppose Allah and his messenger, those words of peace mean nothing. If Adolf Hitler spoke words of peace that doesn't change that his actions were the horrifying opposite.

Muhammad personally cut off many heads, repeatedly condemned Polytheism, repeatedly condemned those who do not accept Allah and his messenger, and he destroyed shrines and Idols sacred to Polytheists. His words of peace don't cancel out his hate and calls to violence, that Many Muslims use as justification for killing other people, including other Muslims. Nearly all Civil Wars, suicide bombers, and terrorism for Religious reasons, in the 21st century, involved Muslims, yet they make up less than 25% of the population. Yes, there is something innately disturbing about that!

Most Muslims I have met online or in real life find this behavior to be completely acceptable.

 

[stvdv]

I want to be proven wrong but no one is doing it

To others I would say "I can't believe this". But knowing you love your Tarantula to inject his (Moses) poison into you, you even like to be proven wrong

If you read the Qur'an, then you'd see that Muhammad taught that no one should be coerced into following Islam.
“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)

That is a nice verse. I remember another verse ending with "And Allah will decide", so we need not judge about others.

Yes, there are such verses, and I'm glad they exist.

Might be good for our happiness to focus more on the good verses.

However, when other verses are calls to violence against Idolaters and say "Take no Jews or Christians as your friends",

Have you ever done exams, like multiple choice. You get many options and only the ones who choose the correct answer pass the exam.
When I were God AND had given human a Conscience AND free will AND brains AND discrimination between right and wrong THEN I'd give exams
Study book would be a scripture. Scripture would contain errors, without errors how could I (being God) test all your faculties I had given you
So you asked to be proven wrong. There you have it. See this whole God/Scripture thing from a different POV. We don't know GOD's POV, do we?

 

[Spiderman]

To others I would say "I can't believe this". But knowing you love your Tarantula to inject his (Moses) poison into you, you even like to be proven wrong


That is a nice verse. I remember another verse ending with "And Allah will decide", so we need not judge about others.


Might be good for our happiness to focus more on the good verses.


Have you ever done exams, like multiple choice. You get many options and only the ones who choose the correct answer pass the exam.
When I were God AND had given human a Conscience AND free will AND brains AND discrimination between right and wrong THEN I'd give exams
Study book would be a scripture. Scripture would contain errors, without errors how could I (being God) test all your faculties I had given you
So you asked to be proven wrong. There you have it. See this whole God/Scripture thing from a different POV. We don't know GOD's POV, do we?

I have not been proven wrong, I have posted calls to violence and gruesome tortures in the Qur'an as well as posted pew surveys interviewing Muslims and discovering anti-Semitism and hatred, and desire for Islamic government instead of democracy.

Nobody proved me wrong. I already know most Muslims are good people, and there are peaceful verses in the Qur'an. Muslims need to condemn the hateful verses as being innately wrong, and I have never met one who does so.

If Muslims weren't causing the majority of wars in the world and the majority of dark-aged Theocracy that outlaw free-speech, oppress women, and force Religion down people's throats legally, I would not have an issue here!

 

[Deidre]

Yes, there are such verses, and I'm glad they exist.

However, when other verses are calls to violence against Idolaters and say "Take no Jews or Christians as your friends", and gruesome tortures in store for those who oppose Allah and his messenger, those words of peace mean nothing. If Adolf Hitler spoke words of peace that doesn't change that his actions were the horrifying opposite.

Muhammad personally cut off many heads, repeatedly condemned Polytheism, repeatedly condemned those who do not accept Allah and his messenger, and he destroyed shrines and Idols sacred to Polytheists. His words of peace don't cancel out his hate and calls to violence, that Many Muslims use as justification for killing other people, including other Muslims. Nearly all Civil Wars, suicide bombers, and terrorism for Religious reasons, in the 21st century, involved Muslims, yet they make up less than 25% of the population. Yes, there is something innately disturbing about that!

Most Muslims I have met online or in real life find this behavior to be completely acceptable.

It also says to not be ''unequally yoked'' in the Bible.

I'm not so much defending Islam, as I am pointing out that all ancient texts have problems associated with their tenets. Lots of contradictions. The societies of then were barbaric and cut throat. They didn't understand political correctness, and the cultural norms were what we would consider today to be prison worthy. Jesus was not like Muhammad, in that Muhammad was a warrior, but I don't think he was on the offensive, as much as on the defensive.

Oddly, the Crusades show Christians in a horribly dark place, so what context were they reading from? What context were Catholic Popes and priests reading from when they would kill people who were heretics? The list goes on.

 

[Spiderman]

It also says to not be ''unequally yoked'' in the Bible.

I'm not so much defending Islam, as I am pointing out that all ancient texts have problems associated with their tenets. Lots of contradictions. The societies of then were barbaric and cut throat. They didn't understand political correctness, and the cultural norms were what we would consider today to be prison worthy. Jesus was not like Muhammad, in that Muhammad was a warrior, but I don't think he was on the offensive, as much as on the defensive.

Oddly, the Crusades show Christians in a horribly dark place, so what context were they reading from? What context were Catholic Popes and priests reading from when they would kill people who were heretics? The list goes on.

I'm more concerned about suffering and oppression in the 21st century.

Islamic Theocracy is robbing countless millions of their lives.

The crusades for the Holy Land were an attempt to take back land that Muslims stole with the sword. That would be similar to invading France to take back land that the Nazis had stolen.

Muslims conquered much of Spain, parts of France, and were going to conquer Italy, and as much of Europe as possible, but got their fleet sunk at Lepanto. Many Muslim countries like Saudi-Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, and beyond, were Christian countries that the Muslims conquered through violent bloodshed, causing the crusades.

Of course, I condemn all atrocities of Catholics and other Christians as well.

I'm just seeing much more civilized behavior in the 21st century Christian-majority countries than Muslim majority countries. But there are many exceptions to the rule!

 

[stvdv]

I have not been proven wrong, I have posted calls to violence and gruesome tortures in the Qur'an as well as posted pew surveys interviewing Muslims and discovering anti-Semitism and hatred, and desire for Islamic government instead of democracy.

Nobody proved me wrong. I already know most Muslims are good people, and there are peaceful verses in the Qur'an. Muslims need to condemn the hateful verses as being innately wrong, and I have never met one who does so.

If Muslims weren't causing the majority of wars in the world and the majority of dark-aged Theocracy that outlaw free-speech, oppress women, and force Religion down people's throats legally, I would not have an issue here!

You totally missed my point !

 

[Spiderman]

You totally missed my point !

I understand!

I should focus more on the positive verses in the Qur'an