Spiderman
Veteran Member
I am the first one to be most delighted to see Muslims taking those steps to get out of the 1500's and embrace the 21st century!
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Islamofascism?
- Thread starter Deidre
- Start date
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I've just never met one! Online or in real life!I am the first one to be most delighted to see Muslims taking those steps to get out of the 1500's and embrace the 21st century!
@Sir Doom ,
Cat got your tongue sir?
I asked you a simple question sir!
Do you know what Fascism is sir?
Do you know what Mussolini's Religious and spiritual policies and procedures were sir?
Do you know how he religiously indoctrinated people sir?
Do you know how he crushed liberals and secularism sir?
Do you know he outlawed free speech?
Do you know that's what they do in Saud-Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Samolia, Afghanistan, and most muslim-majority countries?
Do you know how antisemetic they are?
Do you see how that is Fascism sir?
Why do you despise me for speaking against Fascism and the greatest threats to liberties sir??
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That is a myth...sorry for correcting you.
Mussolini himself was an atheist and a socialist...and during Fascism Italy became more secular and modern, not less...Catholicism was just a tool of nationalist propaganda.
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Spiderman
Veteran Member
No!That is a myth...sorry for correcting you.
Mussolini himself was an atheist and a socialist...and during Fascism Italy became more secular and modern, not less...Catholicism was just a tool of nationalist propaganda.
That said, as for the rest you're right: women were induced to embrace the role of wives and mothers, but were not segregated or excluded from the working life as it happens in SA. They could drive, work in any field (the Gentile reform turned many of them into teachers)...they could be athletes in Olympics.
All this thanks also to Mussolini's daughter Edda, the female mastermind of the regime: feminist, activist, diplomat, polyglot and adviser.
This isn't right!
I'm trying to show @Sir Doom that I am not tolerating his attacks against me!
I want to show him love!
But he walks away with his tail between his legs.
I try to be his friend and he treats me with third-grade insults!
I'm only pointing out Fascism in it's ugly forms.
And he insults me? With middle-schoole insults? Really?
This is about social justice and women's rights!
And rights of all people! He doesn't care! I try to show him, this is about human dignity! Basic consideration of all people!
All he does is quote my facts with doubt!
I tried to help him!
I know what is basic Fascism
From "the Doctrine of Fascism":
The life of a Fascist is serious, austere, and religious...All its manifestations are poised in a world sustained by moral forces and subject to spiritual responsibilities. The Fascist disdains an easy life. The Fascist conception of life is a Religious one in which man is viewed in his immanent relation to a higher law, endowed with an objective will transcending the individual andraising him to conscious membership of a spiritual society."
That Spiritual society to me is the communion of Angels and Saints, the Kingdom of God, Heaven. Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within. There are many forces at war with that Kingdom. The Fascist disdains an easy life and places much emphasis on austerity, self-discipline, and being strict and severe with oneself.
If you are anything like me, love for pleasure and hedonism has gotten you into trouble, weakened you, damaged your health, and lead to legal problems. Hedonism, materialism, and love for pleasure was condemned by Mussolini. Most of what Scripture condemns as sin is condemned by Mussolini as well. He went so far as to ban swearing in public as a crime, and closed night clubs and wine shops. The vice that Mussolini failed to condemn was hate, and the virtue he never promoted was "love your enemies". If Mussolini preached that, Fascism would have been good for society and strengthened minds and souls (at least from a Christian perspective).
Fascism promotes "discipline of the whole person, spiritual life," and veneration of Saints, martyrs, and heroes. It condemns laziness, cowardice, self-interest, and as I said "love for pleasure". If Fascists would have taken their zeal for self-discipline, courage, and austerity, and combined it with charity for one's neighbor, and an inward crusade against the unhealthy passions that vie for control of the mind and soul, it would have worked.
The Fascist disdains an easy life. So did the Saints. Saint Dominic used to tell people to pray for the grace to love suffering. Such an attitude has the potential to create a stronger, more disciplined person, and can even lead to less suffering in the end.
war with the devil, the flesh, and the world. I find my study of Fascism is helping me make a personal holy war (Jihad) against those enemies that have caused so much grief, especially it helps suffer through the temptations to use drugs and alcohol.
Drugs and alcohol are an attempt to escape suffering and anxiety. I find that suffering through such temptations with a sober mind and the grace of God, makes my tolerance to suffering grow. Turning to instant gratification and momentary pleasure just weakens me.!
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@Deidre ...well...I don't think fascism has something to do with regimes that force women to dress like ghosts
http://www.renegadetribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Screen-Shot-2014-03-03-at-4.23.35-PM.png
http://www.renegadetribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Screen-Shot-2014-03-03-at-4.23.35-PM.png
Spiderman
Veteran Member
So really @Sir Doom
This is how you treat me when I try to help you with open arms?
You push forth attacks that resemble middle school insults??
All I wanted from you was an admittedance of your faults! You refuse? Really?
You won't offer a basic apology?
Im taking a stand against tyranny, and you don't care?
Is this what we've become?
Sir, im only asking you to voice your disproval of Fascism!
This is how you treat me when I try to help you with open arms?
You push forth attacks that resemble middle school insults??
All I wanted from you was an admittedance of your faults! You refuse? Really?
You won't offer a basic apology?
Im taking a stand against tyranny, and you don't care?
Is this what we've become?
Sir, im only asking you to voice your disproval of Fascism!
Spiderman
Veteran Member
No, it does. Take a look at Afghanistan sir!
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Ahhh! So beautiful! I hate Fascism but my phone is out of minutes!That is a myth...sorry for correcting you.
Mussolini himself was an atheist and a socialist...and during Fascism Italy became more secular and modern, not less...Catholicism was just a tool of nationalist propaganda.
That said, as for the rest you're right: women were induced to embrace the role of wives and mothers, but were not segregated or excluded from the working life as it happens in SA. They could drive, work in any field (the Gentile reform turned many of them into teachers)...they could be athletes in Olympics.
All this thanks also to Mussolini's daughter Edda, the female mastermind of the regime: feminist, activist, diplomat, polyglot and adviser.
Mussolini's Italy Is what you are promoting!
You liberals promote it! Like you care!
You care about the thousands of raped Germans on new years? No you don't?
You defend the migrants while condemning the victims? WTF? I love you anyways as my phone dies! God bless!
PopeADope I've met and spoken with members of Muslim gay rights groups, secularist Muslims and progressive Muslims. These are minority strains within Islam, no doubt, although a LOT lf Muslims do support secularism for various reasons. Actually you're really not looking at the nuances of the situation - there are constant ongoing changes within Islam, and regarding how Muslims experience it. Now more so than ever, with the advent of the Internet and social media and its impact on availability of knowledge.
Much of what you say is solid enough, and yeah it's a tradition in a messy state. But you're not going into it openly. You've found an opinion that makes sense to you and are peddling it aggressively.
Much of what you say is solid enough, and yeah it's a tradition in a messy state. But you're not going into it openly. You've found an opinion that makes sense to you and are peddling it aggressively.
Sir Doom
Cooler than most of you
Do you think any of that is relevant to this thread? I don't. Hence, again, I don't care what you think about anything. You are not informative in the slightest way. You are not receptive in the slightest way. You do not engage in debate. You do not respond to anything in a meaningful way. Your opinion is made irrelevant by your methodology. If you do not understand why, then you'll just have to live with that lack of understanding. I'm past giving you the benefit of the doubt.
Sir Doom
Cooler than most of you
I don't care how you feel.
Quote these 'attacks' and/or 'insults'
I don't care what you want.
You deserve nothing of the sort nor do I owe anything of the sort.
That's right. I don't care what you take stands against.
I don't care what you've become.
I don't care what you are asking for.
kiwimac
Brother Napalm of God's Love
Rot and nonsense.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Technically that's just Jewish people with fascist ideology, not an expression of Judaism through fascism. It would be comparable to calling Marxism, Jewish communism just because the one who came up with the idea is Jewish. They don't appear to be trying to express Jewish ideologies, but sociopolitical ones.
Augustus
…
In the 7th C, the "dark ages" were not in the past
Anyway, it can't have been much of a totalitarian theocracy as none of the conquered people in the (proto)Islamic expansion actually noticed that their new overlords followed a new and distinct religion for over 50 years after Muhammad's death.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
I think it's generally a misuse, though there are people at the root(sayyid qutb) of many terrorists who took inspiration from European Nazis as well as Khawarji to create a violent new religious movement within Islam. There was even a salafist critique of it that I read recently and they are often thought as islamofascists by some.
stvdv
Veteran Member
But the point is, that it's the goal of Islam to "take it to extremes" in the sense that they envision the whole world to become Islamic
And the Quran does not promote to do this solely in "Gandi" way [meaning without violence]. I don't have the verses at hand
but it is my gut feeling, but that feeling has been formed by some verses I read recently on Islam which were quite violent
Sakeenah
Well-Known Member
You're an American right? Non-Muslims make up the majority of terrorists in the US. According to the FBI 94% of terrorist attacks carried out in the US have been by non Muslims.
https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005
This means that an American terrorist suspect is over nine times more likely to be a non-Muslim than a Muslim.
There have been over a 1000 terrorist attacks in Europe in the past five years. Take a guess at what percent of those terrorists were Muslim.. 90% right? Wrong..it's less than 2%
https://thinkprogress.org/less-than...e-e-u-are-religiously-motivated-cec7d8ebedf6/
Even if all terrorist attacks were carried out by Muslims, you still could not associate terrorism with Islam. There have been 140,000 terror attacks committed in the world since 1970.
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/
Even if Muslims carried out all of these attacks (which is an ridiculous claim). Those terrorists would represent less than 0.00009 percent of all Muslims. To put things into perspective for you.. this
this means that you are more likely to be struck by lightening in your lifetime than a Muslim is likely to commit a terrorist attack during that same timespan. And the same statistical assumptions being used to falsely portray Muslims as violent people can be used more accurately to portray Muslims as peaceful people.
In regards to the victims of civil war, the majority of victims are Muslims. The question is what causes the violence and unrest in those Muslim countries? One obvious possibility is the history of colonialism with
its legacy of artificial boundaries imposed by European colonial powers. Territorial conflicts are a lot harder to resolve than other conflicts.
Juergensmeyer ( The global rise of religious nationalism 2010) interprets the rise of religious nationalism as a counter-reaction to a secular nationalism promoted by the colonial powers and associated with corrupt
and inefficient governments in the post-colonial world.
Another possible reason is the Middle East's strategic importance both because of its location between East and West and oil wealth, which invites major powers to get involved. Over the past 15 years, several military interventions replaced quite stable dictatorships with unstable semi-democracies where civil war is still continuing. The Arab Spring which was first a nonviolent popular uprising, wasn't successful in getting rid of Bashar al assad, which lead to the chaos and humanitarian disaster we still see today.
most of those Muslim countries are score low on political,economic and social development so this also plays a factor. Several studies mentioned that Muslim majority countries are disproportionately involved in instratate coflicts, but is not because of religion.
" Utilizing the Uppsala Conflict Data Program’s data for the 1981–2009 period, the findings indicate that Muslim-plurality countries are indeed disproportionately involved in intrastate conflicts, but these countries are also characterized by lower GDP per capita, oil dependency, state repression, autocracy, and youth bulges, all of which correlate strongly with intrastate conflict onset. The significance of Islam disappears when controls for such factors are included in the statistical model. The variable of Islam does not make any significant contribution to either the in-sample or out-of-sample predictive power of models. Among the factors that increase the risk of intrastate conflict, the presence of a youth bulge has the greatest impact in Muslim-plurality countries."
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/03050629.2015.1016158#.Vyc-_seRLVo
So if you look at the facts we (Muslims) aren't a threat to you nor are we prone to violence and tyranny. You should be worried about toddler Trump. I'm sorry..I shouldn't compare him to toddlers, that's an insult to all toddlers.
stvdv
Veteran Member
He's never met an opponent that he didn't want to lock up.Agree. It's a very wide brush used to tar the more politically extreme Muslims, though Pressie Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is a pretty good example of what the term supposedly means. He's never met an opponent that he didn't want to lock up.
Maybe you live far away in USA, but I highly doubt your statement. More accurate be
He's never met an opponent that he wants to lock up. But as killing gets him in trouble he locks them up
stvdv
Veteran Member
They were puzzycats. If they had been Muslims the whole world would have been Islam already. At least that is what a Muslim told me once.
But I know, if some say this then it's not a fact. More non-Muslims see themselves as superior I think. Just human habit.
But anyway it shows the danger of people that think themselves to be more/better than others
And the below thread shows that at least Quran gives that sugestion quite strongly.
https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/refugee-what-is-the-impact-on-a-muslim.207512/
@PopeADope: I think part of the unjustice and irritation you are voicing here comes from the fact that Muslims do not admit the danger and cruelty in verses, and that these verses don't fit in this age anymore. Not admitting is like telling they agree and are willing to implement those verses
That is why it's important that Muslims dare to speak out "Agreed those verses are not proper in this age anymore". Because Muslims are too afraid to speak this out, we non-Muslims create these threads because we feel threats. And that is obvious and our duty, reading the above verse.
Not only Quran also the Bible contains violent verses. Difference is that Christians admit that those are wrong, not useful in this age. I challenge the first Muslim on RF to speak out loud and admit this. Till then we better challenge these violent verses as being the cause of lots of trouble in the world.
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stvdv
Veteran Member
I don't know if you have been fighting in World War 2.
My grandfather did. Till his death he went to schools to warn the kids of the immanent danger of fascism that is still rampant.
My grandfather was very political trained and sharp. He saw the danger, and I feel this is a very good thread [not video game, it's real]
I visited Berlin when they took the Wall down. And I saw many Germans shouting "Heil Hitler" and it was no joke and felt horrible
So you are correct those were not Muslims. But they are humans. So they are at least as capable to do the same.
It''s not about language correctness. It's about a danger lurking around and arise anytime
Turkey monster almost declared Holland war recently because what...we disagreed with him on something minor [his hair color I think]
Pakistan politician in newspaper said "If I have nukes I would have nuked Holland"
Don't think USA is safe If they nuke Holland or Europe. They might have a coordinate wrong and it lands in USA
These are reality checks happening. If leaders in charge threaten like this, which happens a lot. One day they will do it.
[Kids play video games and loose feeling of reality. They became older generals with unnoticed dementia and boom bomb is flying. That is reality we face now.]
All starts with a thought, concentrates in words and gets followed up with actions
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