Islamofascism?

[stvdv]

The definition of fascism from wikipedia:


I would say that countries like SA, and Iran and Iraq under Hussein, and other Muslim majority countries, share many characteristics of previous fascist regimes, so it's a comparison with some merit.

And of course that doesn't mean that only Muslim majority countries have this characteristic, I would guess that a lot of non-Muslim Majority countries in the third world might also be rightly compared to fascism.

I googled. No fascists countries nowadays.

USA is the one that comes closest to a fascist country some "google hits" said. But maybe fake new.

Although seeing this list ....[@PopeADope: did you check this "USA seems to score high"]
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

America and fascism:
https://eand.co/why-didnt-americans-take-fascism-seriously-until-it-was-too-late-445d2e4c387a

 

[Spiderman]

PopeADope I've met and spoken with members of Muslim gay rights groups, secularist Muslims and progressive Muslims. These are minority strains within Islam, no doubt, although a LOT lf Muslims do support secularism for various reasons. Actually you're really not looking at the nuances of the situation - there are constant ongoing changes within Islam, and regarding how Muslims experience it. Now more so than ever, with the advent of the Internet and social media and its impact on availability of knowledge.

Much of what you say is solid enough, and yeah it's a tradition in a messy state. But you're not going into it openly. You've found an opinion that makes sense to you and are peddling it aggressively.

That's great! I want to see muslims and all people take such a stand!

 

[Spiderman]

Technically that's just Jewish people with fascist ideology, not an expression of Judaism through fascism. It would be comparable to calling Marxism, Jewish communism just because the one who came up with the idea is Jewish. They don't appear to be trying to express Jewish ideologies, but sociopolitical ones.

Exactly!

 

[Spiderman]

In the 7th C, the "dark ages" were not in the past

Anyway, it can't have been much of a totalitarian theocracy as none of the conquered people in the (proto)Islamic expansion actually noticed that their new overlords followed a new and distinct religion for over 50 years after Muhammad's death.

This is wrong! How could you say such a thing?

 

[Augustus]

This is wrong! How could you say such a thing?

Because it's a historical fact?

See for example Robert Hoyland - Seeing islam as others saw it.

 

[Audie]

It seems to be one of those terms that is purposely divisive. I suspect we could attach any word before phobia, or fascism, or any other ''trigger'' words, and reach polarizing effects.

I have read that people do see a connection between fascism and Islam, in general. But, usually those are people who see Islam as ''created'' to control people. A lot of people may think that though of the Abrahamic faiths, in general. (controlling)

Well, you know, the word is a symptom of an actual
problem.

There is a connection, of whatever width and strength,
between Islam and terrorism, and the drive for
world domination. We all know that.

Talibans, ISIS, etc are quite real.

THEY are the divisive element, not the word
you speak of.

Speaking of trigger words, they do go both ways.

The word "Islamophobia" has the word "phobia"
in it to make it a mental health issue, a condition
of a sick mind.

Being wary of terrorists is not a sickness!

 

[Spiderman]

Because it's a historical fact?

See for example Robert Hoyland - Seeing islam as others saw it.

Sir,
you aren't interested in taking a stand against Fascism and freedom! I am a lover of humanity, and countless people don't give a sh*t!

 

[Spiderman]

Well, you know, the word is a symptom of an actual
problem.

There is a connection, of whatever width and strength,
between Islam and terrorism, and the drive for
world domination. We all know that.

Talibans, ISIS, etc are quite real.

THEY are the divisive element, not the word
you speak of.

Speaking of trigger words, they do go both ways.

The word "Islamophobia" has the word "phobia"
in it to make it a mental health issue, a condition
of a sick mind.

Being wary of terrorists is not a sickness!

Well, Audie!

We have had many differences, as a result of myself being a Shinto and embracing the Religion of Japan!

But I have grown to appreciate the stand you take against dark-aged Theocracy!

I have always appreciated your presence at this forum and the stand you take against misogyny, tyranny, and dark-aged idiocy! I admire your fervor for freedom!

 

[Spiderman]

Do you think any of that is relevant to this thread? I don't. Hence, again, I don't care what you think about anything. You are not informative in the slightest way. You are not receptive in the slightest way. You do not engage in debate. You do not respond to anything in a meaningful way. Your opinion is made irrelevant by your methodology. If you do not understand why, then you'll just have to live with that lack of understanding. I'm past giving you the benefit of the doubt.

What??

This thread is entitled "Islamofascism", and I'm quoting Mussolini"s fascism! How is that not relevant?

I try to speak about love, freedom, and social justice, and you speak about me in the ugliest of terms??

Is this how you feel about freedom and women's equality? WTF? Is this what we've become?

 

[Kirran]

Sir,
you aren't interested in taking a stand against Fascism and freedom! I am a lover of humanity, and countless people don't give a sh*t!

Dude, Augustus knows early Islamic history absolutely back to front. Anyone who wants to know about it can learn a lot from Augustus.

 

[Spiderman]

Dude, Augustus knows early Islamic history absolutely back to front. Anyone who wants to know about it can learn a lot from Augustus.

I appreciate what he says! I have learned from him!

 

[Spiderman]

Dude, Augustus knows early Islamic history absolutely back to front. Anyone who wants to know about it can learn a lot from Augustus.

Are you male?

 

[Spiderman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism

I ran across this term today, and honestly didn't know this was a thing? What do you think about this term, do you think it has any merit, and is it relevant when discussing fascism in a broader sense, in comparison to Islam?

I care about women's equality and freedom of speech!

Other liberals don't seem to give a sh*t about the countless millions robbed of these liberties!

 

[Kirran]

Are you male?

Yeah.

 

[Spiderman]

@Audie
We have had our differences regarding China and your people.

But one thing I love about China is, dark-aged Theocracy and Fascism shall never triumph there!

 

[Epic Beard Man]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism

I ran across this term today, and honestly didn't know this was a thing? What do you think about this term, do you think it has any merit, and is it relevant when discussing fascism in a broader sense, in comparison to Islam?

The term is ignorant and coined during the early 00’s by the same people who think Sikhs who wear traditional turbans are Muslim.

These are the same people that coin the term socialism-fascism-communism.

 

[Father Heathen]

It seems to me to be a term used by those who want to criticize a specific form of religious fundamentalism while sparing their own form of religious fundamentalism from the same criticisms, otherwise why wouldn't the term "religious fundamentalism" itself suffice?

 

[Spiderman]

"Badawi was arrested in 2012 on a charge of "insulting Islam through electronic channels" and brought to court on several charges, including apostasy. In 2013 he was convicted on several charges and sentenced to seven years in prison and 600 lashes. In 2014 his sentence was increased to 10 years in prison, 1000 lashes, and a fine. The flogging was to be carried out over 20 weeks. The first 50 lashes were administered on 9 January 2015.[3] The second flogging has been postponed more than twelve times.[4] The reason for the most recent postponement is unknown, but the previous scheduled floggings were delayed due to Badawi's poor health.[5] Badawi is known to have hypertension, and his health has worsened since the flogging began.[6]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raif_Badawi

Do you know what such lashings and ten years in prison is like?

Is this what we've become sir?

You could face the same! That is Fascism!
Im defending your liberties!

 

[Spiderman]

It seems to me to be a term used by those who want to criticize a specific form of religious fundamentalism while sparing their own form of religious fundamentalism from the same criticisms, otherwise why wouldn't the term "religious fundamentalism" itself suffice?

I'm against any fundamentals!

It is Fascism and I proved it!

Nobody cares (it seems)!

 

[Kirran]

@Audie
We have had our differences regarding China and your people.

But one thing I love about China is, dark-aged Theocracy and Fascism shall never triumph there!

Well in many ways the system of an economy dominated by state-run or -affiliated corporations combined with a single-party state is very similar to fascist systems of government.