Alceste
Vagabond
I read your Haaretz article. It didn't mention most of the factual claims in your post. So I am asking for a source for those, please.
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Israel charging money to demolsih Bedouin homes
- Thread starter Bismillah
- Start date
I read your Haaretz article. It didn't mention most of the factual claims in your post. So I am asking for a source for those, please.
Alceste
Vagabond
Apartheid sure does make for some weird public policies, doesn't it! Maybe Israel should try something else.
Shermana
Heretic
Such denial, why don't you try actually quoting something from the source that you claim supports your argument that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was in fact a human rights issue and not a permit-legality issue. I guarantee you with the same effort you hit on your next reply you can easily post something relative to backing your claim instead of denying.
You may be accustomed to blind linking as if that proves your case, perhaps you've never heard of a person who posts something that doesn't actually support their claim, this is why supporting your claims with facts from the link itself helps to prove your case in a public debate.
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
Why Bless your Heart! You just don't get it, do you? Imminent Domain is not an International Laws issue.( Unless, of course, you are talking about Israel. Then everything is am International Laws issue.) Telling someone they can't live on government owned land...Let me repeat that again. GOVERNMENT OWNED LAND, does not violate any human rights issues. The Bedouins reneged on the lease, the owners evicted them.
I don't know why this concept is so hard for you to understand. Landlord evicted it's tenants. This is legal in any city, any state, any country, any where.
These people are not being sued because they owned property, or because they even at one time lived there. These people are being sue because of use of equipment. New York city passed a similar law that charges the citizens for use of the fire and ambulance departments.
To reiterate. GOVERNMENT OWNED LAND. TENANT RENEGED ON LEASE. LANDLORD EVICTED TENANT. FORMER TENANT BEING SUED FOR USE OF EQUIPMENT BECAUSE TENANT CAN'T READ A COURT ORDER.
I don't know why this concept is so hard for you to understand. Landlord evicted it's tenants. This is legal in any city, any state, any country, any where.
These people are not being sued because they owned property, or because they even at one time lived there. These people are being sue because of use of equipment. New York city passed a similar law that charges the citizens for use of the fire and ambulance departments.
To reiterate. GOVERNMENT OWNED LAND. TENANT RENEGED ON LEASE. LANDLORD EVICTED TENANT. FORMER TENANT BEING SUED FOR USE OF EQUIPMENT BECAUSE TENANT CAN'T READ A COURT ORDER.
Alceste
Vagabond
If cherry picking quotes for intellectually lazy people like yourself is your style, go ahead and do it that way. My style is providing links to detailed, thorough sources of information people can read at their leisure in order to debate in a fully informed way.
Human Rights Watch asserts it's a violation of international human rights treaties that Israel has ratified, and I agree. Do you agree or disagree, and on what evidence do you base your opinion? If you give me a link, I'll read it. I never read cherry picked quotes. If the source material is worth reading at all, it's worth reading the whole thing.
Alceste
Vagabond
I think you'll find it's eminent domain. I think you'll also find it is not the correct term to apply to the forcible relocation of citizens of one ethnicity from a piece of property in order to deliver it into the hands of citizens of another ethnicity.
I am still waiting for you to support your claim that the Bedouin are "tenants" and "reneged on their lease". That's something you brought to the table yourself - it hasn't been in any of the source material so far linked to, all of which I have read.
As you implied in a previous post, your inability to read the articles you posted, and the fact that they provide such evidence against your assertions, is not our problem. We will not cater to your laziness while you refuse to cater to ours.
Alceste
Vagabond
Don't be ridiculous. lol. My sources called the Bedouin "tenants" who "reneged on their lease"? Somehow I don't think so.
Alceste
Vagabond
Does this mean you do not have a source that supports your claim that the Bedouins had a lease issued by the property owner, and reneged on it?
If not, THAT is why I would win the argument.
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
Actually, you know what? you were right. (OMG did I say that?yep I did)
upon reading the article it doesn't say that those two families actually had a lease to the property. It does say that the government had been leasing the land for agricultural purposes to Bedouins, but that those two families ousted(ran off) the leasees and began squatting. Hence the eviction process.
upon reading the article it doesn't say that those two families actually had a lease to the property. It does say that the government had been leasing the land for agricultural purposes to Bedouins, but that those two families ousted(ran off) the leasees and began squatting. Hence the eviction process.
elmarna
Well-Known Member
I have been following this thread from the begining.
Watching upset feeelings emerge. Calling on policies and a lot of frustration.
Where is the coming together to sooth the humanity involved?
The abundance of concerns does not go away until someone is willing to address them and put them to rest.
I realize that i do not have all the facts.
But i am a person who does not understand the constant crying out & the avenues of feeding a concern that only brings unhappiness to life!
Let us not give sorrow a seat & let misery hand her a hankie!!!!!!!!!!
Watching upset feeelings emerge. Calling on policies and a lot of frustration.
Where is the coming together to sooth the humanity involved?
The abundance of concerns does not go away until someone is willing to address them and put them to rest.
I realize that i do not have all the facts.
But i am a person who does not understand the constant crying out & the avenues of feeding a concern that only brings unhappiness to life!
Let us not give sorrow a seat & let misery hand her a hankie!!!!!!!!!!
I mean no offense, but how is this in any way relevant to the issue at hand?
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
The ILA said that it had leased the lands in question until 1998 for seasonal agricultural activities for Bedouin in the area. But, in 1998, members of the defendants' families ousted the leasees and began squatting on the land.
Bedouin-Jewish Justice in Israel: Israel sues 34 Bedouin for costs of repeated demolitions of their homes (Ha'aretz)
The state said that the Bedouin have no right to the land, saying it is state-owned, and authorities say the Bedouin have never produced any title deeds that prove their ownership claims.
Israel sues Bedouin for eviction costs - GlobalPost
From Bismillah article
The Israeli state is the registered owner of the land to the south of the Negev city of Rahat.
The Bedouin say they have repeatedly asked for planning permits for their makeshift homes but they have been refused. The Israeli authorities say the land is reserved for agricultural use.
BBC News - Israel sues Bedouin for $500,000 in eviction costs
The Bedouins say they own hundreds of thousands of dunams [each equivalent to 1,000 square meters] of land in the Negev but Israel rejects these claims, saying that after renting state-owned land for agricultural use for several years they began squatting there in 1998.
Maan News Agency: Israel to bill Bedouins for razing their homes
Bedouin-Jewish Justice in Israel: Israel sues 34 Bedouin for costs of repeated demolitions of their homes (Ha'aretz)
The state said that the Bedouin have no right to the land, saying it is state-owned, and authorities say the Bedouin have never produced any title deeds that prove their ownership claims.
Israel sues Bedouin for eviction costs - GlobalPost
From Bismillah article
The Israeli state is the registered owner of the land to the south of the Negev city of Rahat.
The Bedouin say they have repeatedly asked for planning permits for their makeshift homes but they have been refused. The Israeli authorities say the land is reserved for agricultural use.
BBC News - Israel sues Bedouin for $500,000 in eviction costs
The Bedouins say they own hundreds of thousands of dunams [each equivalent to 1,000 square meters] of land in the Negev but Israel rejects these claims, saying that after renting state-owned land for agricultural use for several years they began squatting there in 1998.
Maan News Agency: Israel to bill Bedouins for razing their homes
elmarna
Well-Known Member
The issue at hand is humans and a unceaseingly vocal flood of supporting a ground of seeing it with no opertunity to capture a "mending of fences".
My concerns would never disqualify 1 side.
The objectivity here seems cloudy at best. I realize that 1 tends to support 1 side.
I can not do this as I have watched during my life that both sides have good points to make.
What makes you feel that the bedouins are of no value that you can not consider them?
They laugh, cry, want the best for their children like everyone else in the world!
Who is giving them a voice to speak?
it is not likely 1 of them is part of the forum!
My concerns would never disqualify 1 side.
The objectivity here seems cloudy at best. I realize that 1 tends to support 1 side.
I can not do this as I have watched during my life that both sides have good points to make.
What makes you feel that the bedouins are of no value that you can not consider them?
They laugh, cry, want the best for their children like everyone else in the world!
Who is giving them a voice to speak?
it is not likely 1 of them is part of the forum!
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
So wait a minute. You don't care whether you are wrong or right, just so you come out on top at the end? Damn. talk about an ego.
kai
ragamuffin
yes it can and it does, After a lengthy process of retrospective planning appliations and appeal you lose . They will put an enforcemnt order on it and they will ask you to demolish it ,if you dont they will demolish it and charge you for it.
Where the requirements of an enforcement notice have not been carried out and a prosecution does not persuade the owner to comply then the Council may enter the land and carry out the requirement itself and the owner or the occupier would have to compensate the Council for the costs of such action.
http://www.oxford.gov.uk/PageRender/decP/Enforcement_Of_Planning_Control_occw.htm
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Were this true, then we'd not see controversy over illegal settlements which aren't razed.
To knock down only a few of the many appears to be disparate treatment.