Not going out to commit mass murder of
anyone potentially in the vicinity of the culprit.
But that's just me....I've no religion that justifies genocide.
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Israel-Gaza : "Netanyahu vows no Palestinian state ..."
- Thread starter Jayhawker Soule
- Start date
anyone potentially in the vicinity of the culprit.
But that's just me....I've no religion that justifies genocide.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
Without Palestinian statehood recognition, the Palestinians will be at the mercy of others ... and to date, Israel seems to be holding the reigns. A double statehood solution is what exactly? To deny a sovereign people their sovereignty equates to saying it's ok to conquer and rule an entire culture, which is in no way supported by anyone belonging to the free world. I have no idea what the prime minister has in mind, but it would likely benefit him to be more detail oriented. I say this as a supporter of Israel.
That is pathetically simplistic.
So, for example, the Middle East Institute published an article on 22 December with the headline:
It begins:
In response to the Oct. 7 attacks and subsequent bombing and invasion of the Gaza Strip, most media outlets and think tanks concluded that Hamas initiated the war to sever the path toward normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel. Prior to the Hamas strike, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MbS) said his country was moving steadily in the direction of normalizing relations with Israel. In turn, Israelis were eager to proceed as well; while Hamas’ leadership feared that Israeli normalization with the Saudis would further isolate Hamas from the Arab world.
However, in light of the now-more-than-two-month-long deadly conflict in Gaza, with the civilian Palestinian death toll reportedly nearing 20,000, Saudi Arabia — which has a deep history of supporting the Palestinians — is under intense pressure not to pursue any sort of settlement with Israel at the moment. Instead, the Saudis have emphasized the need to secure Palestinian rights before Riyadh will sign any peace accord with the Jewish state.
Faced with the threat of stability, Hamas perpetrated a horrific pogrom precisely to trigger a horrific reaction.
The Prime Minister is a dangerous right wing bureaucrat who should be thrown out of office along with his disgusting coalition.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
Very strong words coming from an I don't know where you're coming from.
Huh?
Copernicus
Industrial Strength Linguist
First of all, I'm glad that you are responding with something substantive than just a facepalm. I can't take your sniping attacks seriously, so I don't usually bother to reply to them.
You are right that timing of the attack was likely due to the Saudi-Israel normalization effort. I was fully aware of this and have commented on it before. By quote-mining my post, removing it from the context of my interchange with metis, you frame it as if that is all I think or have to say about October 7. That itself is pathetically simplistic on your part, because it ignores the fact that the planning for the Hamas attack had developed well before there even was a Saudi-Israel normalization. IOW, you focus just on the trigger for the attack, not the overall reason for it.
What was the reason for the buildup? That was what my generalization referred to--revenge and payback for a cycle of violence that goes back to Plan Dalet's ethnic cleansing operation, which itself was caused by the ethnic tensions between European Jewish immigrants and the local population of Palestinians. You know that, because you had earlier quoted my reference to Plan Dalet and could think of no better response than a facepalm. Some attack of this sort was going to happen even if there had been no imminent Israel-Saudi rapprochement.
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Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
First, you suggest the prime minister needs to be ousted, then on to the Israeli coalition, which would imply an intent to force both out of position. Things of this nature are typically left for those belonging to the people in question. This will be difficult to deny, given the conflict itself. So, I found the words strong not knowing where you're coming from, particularly when those Israel are in conflict with (Hamas) have proven extremely dangerous to both Israelis and the Palestinian people. If not for Hamas, they would not be shields for Hamas without consent.
I wasn't aware that you knew the history of the planning. Nor, for that matter, was I aware that there was a Saudi-Israel normalization.
I would love to see the Netanyahu coalition crumble and its most malignant members - currently Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir, and Smotrich - soundly denounced at the ballot box in the very near future.
Copernicus
Industrial Strength Linguist
That's laudable, but how do you think that would affect the Gaza situation? Would a two-state solution then become feasible? Would the illegal settlements be dismantled in the West Bank? Would the IDF withdraw and allow an international peacekeeping force? It seems that Israel has dug itself into a much deeper hole than it was in before October 7.
Not "simplistic".
Just simple.
It's accurate.
70 years of theft, murder, brutalization, & apartheid
will inevitably cause violent resistance. Israel's state
terrorism is worse than Hamas's terrorism.
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
It will end. Nothing stays the same
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
What’s that tell you about the people in power?
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
Apartheid? Thought hamas had political power?haven’t they been murdering each other? so stealing land gives terrorist the right to kill innocence? And didn’t they just build on land that nobody was building on that supposedly belong to the Palestinians? Why didn’t the Palestinians build on it then? So the Palestinians have done no wrong in the past seventy years?
Laniakea
Not of this world
Too busy digging hundreds of miles of tunnels.
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
Sad
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
That’s a good point. why did they dig all those tunnels anyway?
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Well both Trump and Netanyahu put forward a positive two state solution that was even better than what Clinton had put (aka the Clinton Parameters) to Arafat over twenty years ago.
Trump backs two-state solution for Israeli-Palestinian conflict
"That's what I think works best," Trump said -- the most explicit support his administration has given for the idea.abcnews.go.com
The answer was still no in both instances.
Why people blame Netanyahu now is absolutely mind boggling. It's not like he hadn't genuinely tried before.
A third time is arguably pointless just like the last two times.
But, why was the plan rejected?
"The accord also calls for a minimum four-year freeze in Israeli settlement construction, though it would allow Israel to maintain control over most of the illegal settlements it has already built.
Although the outline makes several concessions to the Palestinians, including doubling their currently controlled territory, it does ask them to cross what has previously been described as a red line by accepting the previously constructed West Bank settlements as Israeli territory.
The plan, which had been delayed for two years, has already been rejected by the Palestinians, whose representatives were not invited to the meeting. Palestinian officials argue that Trump is too biased in favor of the Israeli government and only seeks to bolster Netanyahu's nationalist government."
Trump reveals Israeli-Palestinian peace plan – DW – 01/28/2020
The deal makes more concessions to Palestinians than anticipated but asks that they accept West Bank settlements. Palestinian leaders have already vowed to reject the plan.
In and of itself, no.
Still, the Netanyahu coalition stands as the most impactful source of deterioration within Israel and a boon to Hamas and Iran.