Israel-Gaza : "Netanyahu vows no Palestinian state ..."

[metis]

October 7 was about revenge and payback for what happened in the past. Israel's response was about revenge and payback for what happened on October 7.

No, it is not, which anyone who's studied this historically should know. Attacks against Israel started immediately after independence and have never really stopped-- only lulls. Thus, the Palestinian cry of "From the river to the sea!" is basically their policy from the get-go and has never stopped.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

No, it is not, which anyone who's studied this historically should know. Attacks against Israel started immediately after independence and have never really stopped-- only lulls. Thus, the Palestinian cry of "From the river to the sea!" is basically their policy from the get-go and has never stopped.

Israel has always considered "the historic land of Israel" To be theirs.
It has slowly but surely cleaned "their" land of other people, and taken it for themselves.
They have never recognised the Palestinian people as the legitimate owners of any land.
This was true when the land was under the protection of Britain just as it is to day.
The fought the British and they fight the Palestinians.
They are unlikely to ever stop..

 

[metis]

Israel has always considered "the historic land of Israel" To be theirs.

As it generally was. However, when the Brits formed the new state of "Israel", it was only a fraction of that which was originally Israel/Judah. Jordan is the main "Palestinian" country there, and it got by far most of the land [about 5/6].

They have never recognised the Palestinian people as the legitimate owners of any land.

Again, false. Some hardliners felt that way, but they never were close to being the majority.

BTW, "Palestinians" is a contrived name used by the Brits to differentiate their land from what the French controlled. The etymology of the word isn't even fully agreed upon [Phoenicians? Philistines? etc?]. Generally speaking, they were mainly called "Arabs", using the English word, because the borders as we knew and know them didn't exist prior to the European divisions.

 

[Laniakea]

That’s a good point. why did they dig all those tunnels anyway?

Probably ran out of room for all the weapons they were stockpiling.
Oh, and they needed somewhere to put hostages.
Typical of poor, "oppressed societies".

 

[metis]

Oh stop with the BS about palestinians not existing, typical zionist nazi garbage

I hate to tell you this but "NAZIs" are not "Zionists", so this is just one of the many problems you have dealing with reality.

I taught a unit on the Middle East in my poli sci course, plus I've spent some time there as well. Since you prefer to spout out of your ignorance and bias, maybe actually do some studying. Maybe start here: Palestine (region) - Wikipedia

Come back when you do some research because I have better and more honest people to discuss such matters with.

 

[Lyndon]

I hate to tell you this but "NAZIs" are not "Zionists", so this is just one of the many problems you have dealing with reality.

I taught a unit on the Middle East in my poli sci course, plus I've spent some time there as well. Since you prefer to spout out of your ignorance and bias, maybe actually do some studying. Maybe start here: Palestine (region) - Wikipedia

Come back when you do some research because I have better and more honest people to discuss such matters with.

As to Zionists being like Nazis, by their fruits ye shall know them

 

[Laniakea]

As to Zionists being Nazis, by their fruits ye shall know them

Zionists are part of the National Socialist German Workers' Party?

Nazi Party - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gee, fill us in!

 

[Copernicus]

No, it is not, which anyone who's studied this historically should know. Attacks against Israel started immediately after independence and have never really stopped-- only lulls. Thus, the Palestinian cry of "From the river to the sea!" is basically their policy from the get-go and has never stopped.

Don't assume that everyone who has studied history will come to the same conclusions about it that you have. People caught up in the cycle of violence often only see attacks from one side of the conflict as unprovoked or unjustifiable attacks, because attacks from their own side are seen normally as reactions to provocations, not the root cause of the violence.

I wonder if you are aware of the history of the Palestinian cry "From the river to the sea!" It sounds like an exhortation to drive the Jews out of their homeland, but that was not originally its meaning on the Palestinian side. It was popularized in the 1960s as a call by the PLO for a secular one-state democratic government in which all citizens had equal rights. No special privileges for Jews, Muslims, or Christians. However, some say that it began as a Zionist slogan, and it has reportedly been used by the Likud movement more recently (as has "west of the Jordan river") as a call for Israeli sovereignty over that Mandatory Palestine area--essentially, an "Eretz Israel" with a dominant Jewish hegemony. The problem with the one-state solution is that a regional democracy of that sort might well dismantle many of the dominant privileges and advantages that the ethnic Jewish population currently enjoys, and that is very unpopular with most Israelis.

See Wikipedia's: From the river to the sea

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Israel has always considered "the historic land of Israel" To be theirs.

Think about that sentence and try again.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

However, some say that it began as a Zionist slogan, ...

Some say? Seriously?

... says who?​

... began when?​

... documented where?​

Wikipedia > From the river to the sea

The phrase was popularised among the Palestinian population in the 1960s as a call for liberation from living under the military occupation of Israel.[6] In the 1960s, the PLO used it to call for a democratic secular state encompassing the entirety of mandatory Palestine, which was initially stated to only include the Palestinians and the descendants of Jews who had lived in Palestine before 1947, although this was later revised to only include descendants of Jews who had lived in Palestine before the first Aliyah.[7] The 1964 charter of the Palestine National Council (PNC) demanded "the recovery of the usurped homeland in its entirety".[8]​

 

[Lyndon]

please come up with a more accurate and less biased source than Wikipedia!!

 

[Copernicus]

Some say? Seriously?

... says who?​

... began when?​

... documented where?​

Wikipedia > From the river to the sea

The phrase was popularised among the Palestinian population in the 1960s as a call for liberation from living under the military occupation of Israel.[6] In the 1960s, the PLO used it to call for a democratic secular state encompassing the entirety of mandatory Palestine, which was initially stated to only include the Palestinians and the descendants of Jews who had lived in Palestine before 1947, although this was later revised to only include descendants of Jews who had lived in Palestine before the first Aliyah.[7] The 1964 charter of the Palestine National Council (PNC) demanded "the recovery of the usurped homeland in its entirety".[8]​

I'm glad that you bothered to read at least through the second paragraph of the Wikipedia entry, which you have quoted in your post. Now, to answer your three questions, please see the section below that entitled "History of the Phrase." You will find the documentation annotated in the text. I won't quote it here, because it would take up too much space.

 

[Copernicus]

This Forward article is worth reading.

Definitely worth the read for a Palestinian perspective on the slogan. The problem is that different groups can interpret it in different ways. For example, Democratic congressman Brad Schneider voted to censure Rashida Tlaib for her use of the slogan, claiming that it "It is nothing else but the call for the destruction of Israel and murder of Jews...", but her use was in the sense of that expressed in the Forward article.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Definitely worth the read for a Palestinian perspective on the slogan. The problem is that different groups can interpret it in different ways. For example, Democratic congressman Brad Schneider voted to censure Rashida Tlaib for her use of the slogan, claiming that it "It is nothing else but the call for the destruction of Israel and murder of Jews...", but her use was in the sense of that expressed in the Forward article.

I've met Congressman Schneider. He leans to the right on many matters involving Israel. His censure vote was unfortunate. I have read Congresswoman Tlaib's comments on the slogan and I take her at her word.

At the same time, a feature of the the slogan is that it allows for a united front between Palestinians demanding equality and Hamas supporters yearning for a Judenrein Middle East.

Sometimes, in fact often, what a slogan serves is far more important than what an individual means.

 

[Revoltingest]

Apartheid? Thought hamas had political power?haven’t they been murdering each other? so stealing land gives terrorist the right to kill innocence?

I never said they had a "right" to kill innocence [sic].
But it is an inevitability that brutally oppressed people
will retaliate brutally. This is Israel's own fault.

And didn’t they just build on land that nobody was building on that supposedly belong to the Palestinians? Why didn’t the Palestinians build on it then?

They did build farms.
Israeli Jews killed or drove Palestinians away to take the land.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sometimes, in fact often, what a slogan serves is far more important than what an individual means.

Often, inferring a false meaning is useful to
demonize those who say it with different intent.
Portray someone as "anti-semitic", then everything
else they say can be thoughtlessly dismissed.
It works for Israel & USA's fervent Zionists.

 

[Jimmy]

Over the past 70 years

I never said they had a "right" to kill innocence [sic].
But it is an inevitability that brutally oppressed people
will retaliate brutally. This is Israel's own fault.

They did build farms.
Israeli Jews killed or drove Palestinians away to take the land.

I hear many Palestinians would like to see israel eliminated. Is that why they’re being brutalized? Or is that a lie?

 

[Revoltingest]

Over the past 70 years

I hear many Palestinians would like to see israel eliminated.

And many Israelis want Palestinians eliminated.
The difference here is that Israel is capable of
achieving their goal, & appear to be on that path.

Is that why they’re being brutalized? Or is that a lie?

To ask the question isn't a lie.
That's a really odd pair of questions to post.

Israel's motives for brutalizing Palestinians &
stealing their land is multi-faceted....
- Desire for their land.
- Not valuing Muslim lives or human rights.

 

[Jimmy]

And many Israelis want Palestinians eliminated.
The difference here is that Israel is capable of
achieving their goal, & appear to be on that path.

To ask the question isn't a lie.
That's a really odd pair of questions to post.

Israel's motives for brutalizing Palestinians &
stealing their land is multi-faceted....
- Desire for their land.
- Not valuing Muslim lives or human rights.

Or the fact that
Palestine wants to eliminate Israel?

 

[Revoltingest]

Or the fact that
Palestine wants to eliminate Israel?

I don't know what percentage of Palestinians
would want Israel eliminated. But given what
Israel is doing to them & their homes, I'd bet
that many would want Israel gone.
Are you OK with Israel having imposed 70 years
of brutal apartheid, land theft, murder, torture,
& now genocide? You should face the hypocrisy
of Israel not wanting Palestine to exist.