Israel-Gaza : The bitter harvest of hate

[libre]

But on what grounds is it proper to call it anti-semitism?

From my earlier post:

The people attacked were not military targets, many were civilians living in land settled before 1948. Trying to say that these people are settlers that are legitimate military targets is clearly trying to justify the Hamas attacks.

I do not believe that the same arguments would be accepted if it was North American civilians attacked in unceded land, so in my view it meets the criteria of antisemitism.

If someone would argue that terrorists also have a free pass in British Columbia or The Northwest Territories, it could fairly be argued that they are not antisemitic and are just otherwise a bad person.

 

[libre]

Those who ignore the killing of tens of thousands
of Palestinians, yet complain bitterly about the
mistreatment of a couple hundred Jewish hostages
who get to survive & go home is far more dangerous.

The people who ignore the killing and abuse of Palestinians are in the wrong.

This does not make minimizing the treatment of the hostages a good thing.
Unempathetic responses which trivialize the suffering of victims of terrorism is not productive, nor does it serve the Palestinian cause in any way.

 

[Twilight Hue]

A couple hundred captives who survive endure
far far less suffering than the several tens of
thousands of Palestinians who lost limbs or died.
Israel doesn't value the lives of Palestinians at all.

War seems to have a strange tendency to remove limbs and lives on both sides.

What you're describing is pretty common, not the up close personal type of trauma these people describe.

 

[Estro Felino]

There something I don't understand: if they claìm they are victims of Hamas, why don't they sign a treaty of peace with Israel?
It doesn't add up...
I mean...come on...

 

[Revoltingest]

The people who ignore the killing and abuse of Palestinians are in the wrong.

This does not make minimizing the treatment of the hostages a good thing.
Unempathetic responses which trivialize the suffering of victims of terrorism is not productive, nor does it serve the Palestinian cause in any way.

To fallaciously label things as anti-semitic simply
because Jews are criticized for real wrongs is
even worse than what you object to because
it has led & still leads to the death & maiming
of many tens of thousands of Muslims.

 

[Revoltingest]

War seems to have a strange tendency to remove limbs and lives on both sides.

That suggests equivalence of damage.
But it's the Muslims who endure orders
of magnitude more lives & limbs lost.

What you're describing is pretty common, not the up close personal type of trauma these people describe.

Heinous Israeli brutality is not legitimized
by its being common. Is attacking civilian
Israelis now OK because it too is common?

 

[Colt]

From The Times of Israel:

Freed hostage Mia Schem: 'I experienced hell. There are no innocent civilians in Gaza'​

It is a long and deeply disturbing article where we can read:

Schem spoke in depth for the first time about the experience to both Channel 12 and 13 news, recounting the moments she was taken hostage, the suffering and mental torture she endured in captivity, and the experience of coming back home.​

​

“It’s important to me to reveal the real situation about the people who live in Gaza, who they really are, and what I went through there,” she told Channel 13 news. “I experienced hell. Everyone there are terrorists… there are no innocent civilians, not one,” she said. “[Innocent civilians] don’t exist.”​

The article deserves to be read because Mia Schem deserves to be heard -- the truth of her trauma must be recognized and acknowledged. So, too, the trauma being endured by far, far too many innocent Palestinian civilians who do in fact exist.

Even as we prepare for a bitter harvest of hate I think it's really important to remember that empathy is not a zero sum game.

Hamas are Gazan Palestinians dressed up in terrorist costumes! After they kill, rape and torture random Jews, they blend back into the population. When the IDF blows up their dwelling then they get added to the list of "civilians killed by the evil IDF"! Anti Israel media outlets swallow the stats hook, line and sinker!

 

[Revoltingest]

Hamas are Gazan Palestinians dressed up in terrorist costumes! After they kill, rape and torture random Jews, they blend back into the population. When the IDF blows up their dwelling then they get added to the list of "civilians killed by the evil IDF"! Anti Israel media outlets swallow the stats hook, line and sinker!

Do you think that the child half of the
over 20,000 killed are rapists & torturers?
Israel's philosophy....
"Kill 10 or 20 Palestinians, & there's a good
chance that one will belong to Hamas.
This is good. They're only Muslims."

 

[Colt]

But on what grounds is it proper to call it anti-semitism? Rather than anti-settler, anti-israel, anti-imperialism or anti-zionism?

Because the Palestinians are also settlers in the land called Palestine. The Israelis and Palestinians are related, they are blood relatives from thousands of years ago. Both groups have maintained a cultural presence in the region for ages. The controversy between them is just an excuse to cover the anti-Semitism that has existed all over the world wherever the diaspora lived. If the Jews vanished from the earth today, corrupt governments would have to find another culprit to blame their failings on!

 

[Colt]

Do you think that the child half of the
over 20,000 killed are rapists & torturers?
Israel's philosophy....
"Kill 10 or 20 Palestinians, & there's a good
chance that one will belong to Hamas.
This is good. They're only Muslims."

I think that the predictable consequences for the large-scale attack on the Jews are the fault of Hamas. When terrorist hide within their own families then they risk the lives of everyone. Their families and the hostages they take are human shields. But Hamas does use these innocent causalities to garner sympathy from stupid people in order to detract from their own behavior. The dead, raped Jews just become meaningless, forgotten about while the poor oppressed Palestinians are the real victims.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think that the predictable consequences for the large-scale attack on the Jews are the fault of Hamas.

Does predictability justify that which is predicted?
If so, then what can be said of Israel's 70+ years
of deadly brutal oppression, theft, & murder of
Palestinians, & the consequent violent revolt
against the oppressor?

When terrorist hide within their own families then they risk the lives of everyone. Their families and the hostages they take are human shields. But Hamas does use these innocent causalities to garner sympathy from stupid people in order to detract from their own behavior. The dead, raped Jews just become meaningless, forgotten about while the poor oppressed Palestinians are the real victims.

Israel uses this rationale to justify rampant murder
of vast swaths of Palestinians. Just blame Hamas,
then any war crime is OK....as long as its against
only Muslims & the occasional Christian.

 

[Estro Felino]

Hamas are Gazan Palestinians dressed up in terrorist costumes! After they kill, rape and torture random Jews, they blend back into the population. When the IDF blows up their dwelling then they get added to the list of "civilians killed by the evil IDF"! Anti Israel media outlets swallow the stats hook, line and sinker!

If they were just "victims of Hamas" as the Left calls them, they would ask for Israel's protection.
As the people of any occupied territory did in history.
Unfortunately for them, smart people don't fall for such a propaganda.

 

[Koldo]

From my earlier post:

The people attacked were not military targets, many were civilians living in land settled before 1948. Trying to say that these people are settlers that are legitimate military targets is clearly trying to justify the Hamas attacks.

I do not believe that the same arguments would be accepted if it was North American civilians attacked in unceded land, so in my view it meets the criteria of antisemitism.

If someone would argue that terrorists also have a free pass in British Columbia or The Northwest Territories, it could fairly be argued that they are not antisemitic and are just otherwise a bad person.

How does them not being a legitimate military target (and saying that they are) entails antisemitism?

 

[Koldo]

Because the Palestinians are also settlers in the land called Palestine. The Israelis and Palestinians are related, they are blood relatives from thousands of years ago. Both groups have maintained a cultural presence in the region for ages. The controversy between them is just an excuse to cover the anti-Semitism that has existed all over the world wherever the diaspora lived. If the Jews vanished from the earth today, corrupt governments would have to find another culprit to blame their failings on!

What do you even know about the settlements in Palestine?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

But on what grounds is it proper to call it anti-semitism?

Because it's an attack on Jews. On what grounds are you so invested in semantic sparring?

 

[Koldo]

I think that the predictable consequences for the large-scale attack on the Jews are the fault of Hamas. When terrorist hide within their own families then they risk the lives of everyone. Their families and the hostages they take are human shields. But Hamas does use these innocent causalities to garner sympathy from stupid people in order to detract from their own behavior. The dead, raped Jews just become meaningless, forgotten about while the poor oppressed Palestinians are the real victims.

Do I need to remind you that Israel has damaged over 20 hospitals so far? What do we call this other than state terrorism? Doesn't this mean, as per your rationale, that Hamas is justified in doing whatever it takes to kill Netanyahu even if means the death of many civilians? Or do you have a double standard?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I just finished reading

In My Words: Killing children in the Israel-Hamas war is not justified​

and think it's worth sharing.

 

[Revoltingest]

Because it's an attack on Jews.

See...this is why "anti-semitism" is a meaningless cry.
It includes reasons other than religion based hatred.

 

[Koldo]

Because it's an attack on Jews.

It is obviously the case that an attack on people that have X attribute might happen due to them possessing Y attribute, rather than X. This is even more evident when it is Y that posits a threat.

On what grounds are you so invested in semantic sparring?

By saying that attacks on settlers are done out of antisemitism, what is being said is that these attacks have done nothing to do with the settlements in themselves, but rather the inhabitants. In other words, by framing it this way what is being said is that it is not the settlements that those attackers take issue with, but rather an inherent trait of those living there. Therefore since neither side of the conflict takes issue with the settlements, it is only a matter of whether we want to take sides with antisemistism or not, and since the vast majority of us won't side with antisemitism, we must therefore side with the settlers. But what if the attacks weren't driven by antisemitism per se? It changes everything. As you can see, the words we use shape the political debate, and this has been widely well-known for decades.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

By saying that attacks on settlers are done out of antisemitism, what is being said is that these attacks have done nothing to do with the settlements in themselves, but rather the inhabitants.

1. I have not made such a claim.
2. Your statement is prima facie nonsense.