Israel - Iran Conflict Seems More Likely

[Caladan]

If Iran does wrong, it is not to be excused. But if they have a desire to wield nukes, they have good reason.

First of all, Iran is signed on the NPT and claims to develop nuclear capabilities only for civil necessities, so if Iran misleads the UN and the world their reasons must be rotten.
As the top nation which promotes a rise of a Shiite crescent over the Middle East, their 'good reasons' stand on very shaky ground.

And since the US is culpable, we have an obligation to settle the danger by some better mans than going to war.

The US has gone out of its way to make a military intervention a last option. Hours, days, months and years have been spent in diplomatic and economic means to defuse the situation. If the American intelligence community ever decides for the option of military action, I'm sure that their reasons for doing so are just as good as Iran's for pursuing its program.

It's speaks volumes, that Sunni Arab states have accepted a nuclear Israel for decades, but are threatening to arm themselves with nuclear capabilities if Iran does. I guess the rest of the Middle East doesn't put much credit in Iran's good intentions.

 

[Revoltingest]

Given that Iran signed the NPT in 1974, it might lack legitimacy. When the US installed preferred a preferred leader in 1953, US sponsored
successors could be viewed as puppets with an agenda of keeping Iran weak & under US control. But isn't this all rather moot? Our relationship
with Iran should be improved thru negotiations rather than war, which would have unpredictable scale & consequences. Even if many think
this approach fruitless, we owe it to them....especially after launching a deadly attack by proxy with bio & chem weapons, resulting in an
estimated 1,000,000 deaths & casualties on both sides.

 

[F0uad]

The fact is that Iran did sign up and Israel didn't yet Israel did create them both would be illegal and the only thing we know is that Israel posses them.

 

[Revoltingest]

The fact is that Iran did sign up and Israel didn't yet Israel did create them both would be illegal and the only thing we know is that Israel posses them.

Israel wouldn't be violating any law I know of by having nukes.
Would Iran violate any law...other than the treaty?

 

[Rakhel]

Israel has never confirmed nor denied the possession of nuclear material.
Further, if Israel did create Nukes, it was most likely before the NNT came into existence, therefore any nukes they do have, if they actually have any, are not illegal, so accusing Israel of a crime such as that is...rather silly.

 

[F0uad]

Israel has never confirmed nor denied the possession of nuclear material.
Further, if Israel did create Nukes, it was most likely before the NNT came into existence, therefore any nukes they do have, if they actually have any, are not illegal, so accusing Israel of a crime such as that is...rather silly.

Mordechai Vanunu, a former Israeli nuclear technician, provided explicit details and photographs to the London Sunday Times of a nuclear weapons program in which he had been employed for nine years, "including equipment for extracting radioactive material for arms production and laboratory models of thermonuclear devices."

Israel has refused to sign the NPT despite international pressure to do so, and has stated that signing the NPT would be contrary to its national security interests so why not sign he treaty if they are no nukes? How is it illegal for Iran to have nukes but Israel not?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Israel has never confirmed nor denied the possession of nuclear material.
Further, if Israel did create Nukes, it was most likely before the NNT came into existence, therefore any nukes they do have, if they actually have any, are not illegal, so accusing Israel of a crime such as that is...rather silly.

Israel is surrounded by people who'd like to blow it off the map. No one in their right mind would suggest that keeping a nuclear deterent is a crime under these circumstances regardless of any treaties that aren't with the paper they're printed on.

 

[F0uad]

Israel is surrounded by people who'd like to blow it off the map. No one in their right mind would suggest that keeping a nuclear deterent is a crime under these circumstances regardless of any treaties that aren't with the paper they're printed on.

Israel is more of a threat to Iran then Iran to Israel, Israel can fight all its neighboring countries at the same time and win without using nuclear weapons. If this is your justification for Israel having nuclear weapons then Iran would have more rights to it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Israel is more of a threat to Iran then Iran to Israel, Israel can fight all its neighboring countries at the same time and win without using nuclear weapons.

Thank you.

 

[Revoltingest]

Israel has never confirmed nor denied the possession of nuclear material.
Further, if Israel did create Nukes, it was most likely before the NNT came into existence, therefore any nukes they do have, if they actually have any, are not illegal, so accusing Israel of a crime such as that is...rather silly.

But US policy isn't about whether there is a crime or not. We simply decide who should have
them & who shouldn't, & the law is just a pretext we use to justify what we'd do anyway.

Some more fun news....
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...it-will-launch-nuclear-attack-on-america.html
Consider the similarity of these situations:
- The US & Israel threaten pre-emptive war against Iran because they fear Iran will strike Israel with nukes.
- N Korea threatens pre-emptive war against the The US because they fear we will strike them with nukes.
In both cases pre-emptive attacks guarantee war. Sounds like a bad idea.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

But US policy isn't about whether there is a crime or not.

It is about - for example - a determination that a nuclear armed US and an nuclear armed North Korea are not equivalent threats to humanity.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is about - for example - a determination that a nuclear armed US and an nuclear armed North Korea are not equivalent threats to humanity.

Yes. But being a threat to humanity will be tolerated in some regimes more than others.
Example: We supplied old Iraq with WMDs, but then invaded later Iraq for having WMDs.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Yes. But being a threat to humanity will be tolerated in some regimes more than others.
Example: We supplied old Iraq with WMDs, but then invaded later Iraq for having WMDs.

In my opinion we were grievously wrong to do so.

 

[Revoltingest]

In my opinion we were grievously wrong to do so.

Sumthin to agree upon.

Our machiavellian efforts to 'improve' the region resulted in:
- 1,000,000 or so casualties in both Iran & Iraq during their war.
- Several hundred thousand dead Iraqi Kurds in the al-Infal Campaign.

Add to this a small death toll (290) when the US shot down an Iranian airliner.
Funny how this made so much less news here than when the USSR shot down a S Korean airliner.

It grinds my gears that my tax money goes towards such deadly & bone-headed policies.
And now, we talk about applying our keen judgement in yet another war.

 

[Flankerl]

Mordechai Vanunu, a former Israeli nuclear technician, provided explicit details and photographs to the London Sunday Times of a nuclear weapons program in which he had been employed for nine years, "including equipment for extracting radioactive material for arms production and laboratory models of thermonuclear devices."

Israel has refused to sign the NPT despite international pressure to do so, and has stated that signing the NPT would be contrary to its national security interests so why not sign he treaty if they are no nukes? How is it illegal for Iran to have nukes but Israel not?

Why its illegal for Iran? Well they signed the NPT. Which kinda makes it illegal for them to have them.


I know its like quantum physics.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Israel is more of a threat to Iran then Iran to Israel, Israel can fight all its neighboring countries at the same time and win without using nuclear weapons. If this is your justification for Israel having nuclear weapons then Iran would have more rights to it.

I neither blame Iran for trying to aquire nukes nor do I blame Israel for trying to stop them. This is a war being fought at the table of "diplomacy". Sanctions and other such measures are simply 21st Century weapons used to acheive superiority over the enemy.

 

[F0uad]

I neither blame Iran for trying to aquire nukes nor do I blame Israel for trying to stop them. This is a war being fought at the table of "diplomacy". Sanctions and other such measures are simply 21st Century weapons used to acheive superiority over the enemy.

You mean superiority over innocent civilians and a government that doesn't bow to america?

Sanctions don't do anything, Cuba had sanctions for how long? Iran is used to sanctions so don't think anything will change.

 

[F0uad]

Why its illegal for Iran? Well they signed the NPT. Which kinda makes it illegal for them to have them.


I know its like quantum physics.

According to International law you have to sign it the same goes for North Korea who didn't sign it..

 

[Rakhel]

According to International law you have to sign it the same goes for North Korea who didn't sign it..

Actually, the only countries that have never signed the NPT are Israel, India and Pakistan.
North Korea did ratify the NPT

North Korea ratified the treaty on December 12, 1985, but gave notice of withdrawal from the treaty on January 10, 2003 following U.S. allegations that it had started an illegal enriched uranium weapons program, and the U.S. subsequently stopping fuel oil shipments under the Agreed Framework[52] which had resolved plutonium weapons issues in 1994.[53] The withdrawal became effective April 10, 2003 making North Korea the first state ever to withdraw from the treaty.[54] North Korea had once before announced withdrawal, on March 12, 1993, but suspended that notice before it came into effect.[55]
Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[F0uad]

Actually, the only countries that have never signed the NPT are Israel, India and Pakistan.
North Korea did ratify the NPT

Well if you want to be all technically and not get to the point your quotation clearly says that they withdrew from the treaty.