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Israel Palestine Conflict?
- Thread starter F0uad
- Start date
Pastek
Sunni muslim
Oh goodie ...
1robin
Christian/Baptist
I watched part of that video and the color commentary by the reporter guy. I have also noted it's dismissal by several people in the thread. I have however not heard a single reason why.
I do not know that guy. He does not seem to be an apologist or a theologian. He does not talk too much about doctrine or general history. He seems to be simply describing his experience. I do not know how his personal experience can be dismissed unless the critic has access to it. His testimony is consistent with many others I have heard of ex PLO members or members of radical Islamic societies and groups. I do not think he is describing things that are generally true in most of the places where Islam is dominant but know many who claim the same things concerning areas where a more primitive or fundamental Islamic influence exists.
In summary I claim nothing about this guy but also do not see beyond some emotional preference how his statements may be dismissed. Not personally liking something is a poor judge of what is fact or not.
Shermana
Heretic
1Robin:
One might think that James wouldn't repeat "Faith without works is dead" Five times in a row in Chapter 2 if he wasn't try to drill something in to counter an opposing doctrine.
Or that could mean that James and Hebrews clashes and contradicts with Paul and that there's a good reason many of the Nazarenes and Ebionites rejected Paul. I do like how F.C. Baur concludes that "Simon Magus" was code word for Paul in the Pseudo-Clementines.
One might think that James wouldn't repeat "Faith without works is dead" Five times in a row in Chapter 2 if he wasn't try to drill something in to counter an opposing doctrine.
Dingbat
Avatar of Brittania
Probably because the man isn't nor has ever been a Muslim he is a Lebanese Christian who has worked his entire life with Right Wing Christians like yourself.
Tranquil Servant
Was M.I.A for a while
O-K... But I fear that even the covenant made through Jesus is becoming like those of the Old Testament; in the sense that many Christians use the Holy name of Christ and his sacrifice as a "free pass" to sin; the same way Hebrews of the Old Testament used and abused the laws of "sacrifice." They disregarded and even forgot the true meanings behind those laws.
He didn't disobey and that's why it was guaranteed. He obeyed God and God knew that he would.
the unconditional promises were fulfilled because they were in accordance with God's plan (or will). God kept the promises that would fulfill his will (especially concerning the Messiah) but would break other agreements when Israel would break their end of the agreements; mostly the agreements which allowed certain privileges to them. A covenant can be a promise or an agreement.
..Yes symbolic.
As I said before, I believe God favors or blesses those who are chosen.
War is no blessing; peace is.
However, everything does go according to God's will.
Galatians 3:8
The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: All nations will be blessed through you.
Galatians 3:14
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
Ephesians 2:11-22
[ One in Christ ] Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called uncircumcised by those who call themselves the circumcision (that done in the body by the hands of men)12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with Gods people and members of Gods household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
O-K... But only If you need more clarification, then I will gladly continue this discussion on another thread. I just wanted to make myself clear. Otherwise, I rather not continue this debate. I like agreeing and exchanging knowledge; not disagreeing and debating.
Peace and Blessings
Pastek
Sunni muslim
That's because you didn't finished the video.
The problem with liars is that they don't know when to stop.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
James and a few verses in Hebrews do clash at least on the surface with Paul, John and most of the rest of the NT. God can't contradict himself (or at least that is the supposition we operate under) and so it must be determined which of these verses have a deeper or more complex meaning and which are saying what they seem. It always astonishes me the shaky ground or reasons appealed to in order to justify the dismissal of Paul the most prolific NT author when it is actually based in preference not evidence. I think your position was chosen by preference and then reality was expected to adjust accordingly and when it doesn't, I guess any port in the storm is fine. Why is it always German scholars that do most of the redacting and revisionist histories? If you are consistently adopting Baur then I guess you are now a trinitarian.
1. The majority of the NT stresses grace and denies works for salvation.
2. Logic mandates grace and rejects works.
I spent years after I was born again trying to figure out why faith was the standard and not performance. We are so conditioned by life to judge everything by merit that it is hard to switch gears. His ways are not our ways. I only started to understand by examining the impossibility of a merit system. Any works based salvation is absolutely impossible to lay out. It invariably would mean that where ever you arbitrarily draw the line that the man immediately above the line and the man immediately below the line would have one sin difference between them. So one gets heaven and the other hell based on one sin. It would take me a thousand words to point out all the reason a works based salvation does not work but would rather have you state what a works based system would look like instead. Where is the line? How does it compensate for differences in opportunity and knowledge? Where is it clearly defined in the Bible? What if I meet all its works requirements but have one sin I had not repented for when I am hit by a bus? etc...An attempt to illustrate the requirements of a works based salvation would take volumes and be more complex that quantum physics.
3. Paul prevailed in every dispute between the apostles and himself.
4. The other apostles accepted his commission.
5. He knew more about the law and Judaism than the rest put together and was by far the most authoritative on it.
6. All ten of the most respected Biblical commentators agree with what I stated about these issues.
7. Only grace requires the historic death of Christ. Works did not need his death.
8. The Bible states on almost every other page that we will all sin and fall short. Hoping the Bible was inaccurate and we will meet the standard is futile.
9. Works does not explain or account for the born again experience I and billions of others have had.
10. Works or the LAW was the corner stone of the covenant that the Bible said fault was found with.
11. Christ established a new covenant hence (new testament). If it was works like you think it has always been then what was new about it?
I keep forgetting this does not belong in this thread. The discussion should be moved somewhere else if pursued.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
How do you know all this dingbat? Do you think he, the cowriter of his book, the nationally respected publisher of his books and materials (Simon and Shuster), and the national organizations that hire him to speak are all unaware that people will inevitably check up on him?
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YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Though I often feel a need to shower after a brief visit to Loonwatch, I have to say that this article is near spot on.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
I will see your loonwatch and raise you:
- http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jul2002/ham1-j05.shtml
- http://almashriq.hiof.no/lebanon/300/320/324/324.2/islamism/shia-islam-leb.html
- http://www.nmhschool.org/tthornton/mehistorydatabase/arabisraeliwars.php
- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1266534.stm
- http://www.islamonline.net/english/In_Depth/PalestineInFocus/TheStruggle/History/03.shtml
- http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-31722875_ITM
- http://www.cfr.org/publication/10855/
- http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/libya/facility.htm
- http://almashriq.hiof.no/lebanon/300/320/324/324.2/musa-sadr/
- http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Abdullah_Yusuf_Azzam
http://www.kamalsaleem.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=79&Itemid=61
and it explains which claims apply to which source and gives many more sources.
I am still reserving judgment but it does not look good for his critics so far.
I have also been researching many of the other famous former Islamic converts to Christianity that say similar things to Kaleem. It seems anyone who does not agree with Islam can't possibly be telling the truth according to Muslims. I think "claims I do not like" translates as liar in Arabic.
Secular publishers and other groups have invested millions in that guys story and any legitimate refutation would cost them dearly. They know this very well but still have partnered with him. I think all of these trump something called loonwatch and its brilliant scholars but I am still in the early stages of research involving him.
F0uad
Well-Known Member
Most of those Links and sources arent even about the subject.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
If you go to the site I posted at the end. It lists the specific claims and the site that corresponds to it. I read many of them and most do address the claims. The referenced sites were not written to explain his claims and so are not specific answers in response to his specific claims he made but provide more than is necessary to give his claims credability. Many of them point blank show his claims true. The rest at the very least show his claims are not deniable or impossible. Personal testimony is hard to prove but it is easy to show it possible or likely.
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loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
Getting the thread back on track ....
U.N. Will Vote on Status for Palestinians, Defying U.S.
Israel was brought into existence by UN vote and Palestine was promised the same. But now the US and Israel opposes to give that right to the original residents of that land. What a shame !!!
U.N. Will Vote on Status for Palestinians, Defying U.S.
Israel was brought into existence by UN vote and Palestine was promised the same. But now the US and Israel opposes to give that right to the original residents of that land. What a shame !!!
I support a 'yes' vote. I have also written my Congresswoman urging her to do all in her power to oppose using aid to coerce or punish the PLO for taking this step.
I trust the vote will pass and I congratulate my Muslim friends.
I trust the vote will pass and I congratulate my Muslim friends.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
Actually in the original agreement Israel was all for the Palestinians having their own state. Israel agreed to every partition suggested. It was the Palestinians that would not agree to anything that gave the Jewish people any land at all. After Israel was attacked by all their neighbors the day they became a nation by UN vote, all bets were off. Israel since then has rightfully kept what land they had taken from their aggressive neighbors needed to maintain a defendable perimeter but gave most of it back. Each time to be attacked from the land they returned. The Palestinians rejected their portion of land and peace with Israel and got exactly what they wanted in the end. Yet complain and shoot rockets at children because they got what exactly what they chose. Truly a shame indeed. Can you prove the palestinians were there 4000 plus years ago when or before the Jewish people were? Unless the Palestinians were Cannanites, Ammonites, or Philistines I doubt it.
On top of everything else the guys numerically challenged ...
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
Are we still talking about the Israel and Palestine on this earth ? Or may be you have some secret information from some other planet ?
Good entertainment though...:ignore: