I'd rather watch grass grow.
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Israel Palestine Conflict?
- Thread starter F0uad
- Start date
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
On top of everything else the guys numerically challenged ...
Or may be all his exaggerated numbers are 'encrypted' numbers from those 'DOD servers' (that he frequently talks about) ... which we need to decrypt with sensible historical data.
There is nothing quite like watching an otherwise useful thread get 1robined.
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
There is nothing quite like watching an otherwise useful thread get 1robined.
I apologize for my part of the creating the distraction - but sometimes it just gets too much and you can't help it.
That's OK - post 257 pretty much said what I have to say at this point. Salaam ...
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
Shalom.
Dingbat
Avatar of Brittania
Good to see this going forward. Veto powers by many of the current security council has made the process largely a joke.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
I thought we were. Which part is not a part of your earth history. Israel agreed 100% with the original arrangement in 1948 and the Palestinians refused. Or maybe you think that the Jewish people in 1948 are not descended from the same race of people that lived in Israel approx 4000 years ago. I have no idea what your equivocation is. Israel is the only example of a race of people who exist on the same land, have the same language, and same God they did 3000 years ago (on this earth anyway). I will be out of pocket for a few days (and I am sure that is very dissapointing for you) and will not post but you have a good weekend loveroftruth, maybe spend it on earth history a little. Selah,Are we still talking about the Israel and Palestine on this earth ? Or may be you have some secret information from some other planet ?
Good entertainment though...:ignore:
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
Yes, when someone comes and takes your land and tells you that you would get to keep a portion of it, then you go tell the Palestinians that they should have agreed . Please note that Jewish population was only around 5% at the beginning of 1900. Only through mass immigration they are were they are now.
We consider Prophet Adam to be a Muslim just like all the other Prophets - so now you get out of this world and give the Muslim land back :clap
4000 yrs - what a bunch of baloney.
Shermana
Heretic
Wasn't their land. Jordan at best can be called their land. This is a major problem, people think that the "Mandate of Palestine" belonged to people who later changed their name to "Palestinians" in the 1960s and were mostly the descendents of Syrians and Egyptians and Transjordanians (They called themselves "Southern Syrian Arabs before that time). Jews lived in Judea-Samaria for far longer and had a majority in Jerusalem for most of its history. The grand majority of Arabs who lived in the "Palestine" region under British, Turkish, and even Mameluk and Crusader rule, lived in the Transjordan region. They only emigrated to the "Jewish area" that the Ottoman Turks invited the Jews to settle in chasing after the Jobs and capital they offered.
I should make a whole thread on this.
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Poppycock.
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
Using biblical names doesn't make it any more historically ancient and accurate. You can play games with the 'name'/'label' all you want but the fact is that British Mandate was to divide the existing land of 'Palestine' and create the new 'Israel'. Also, at the beginning of the 20th century Jewish population in those lands were approximately 5% while the non-Jewish population was 95%. Not only did the mandate give the newly created Israel unfairly higher proportion of the land but also allowed mass immigration of Jews from Europe to the land of Palestine.
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Shermana
Heretic
The numbers are shaky and estimates vary, at best we have quotes like
to give us a real picture, even the Ottoman tax registers aren't necessarily accurate portrayals.
Shermana
Heretic
Ummm, I don't you're remotely close to the same page in addressing what I actually said. Unless you can prove that the Arabs weren't predominantly living in the Transjordan sector of "Palestine" of course.
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loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
We are talking about the same thing but if you choose to ignore it - nothing I can do about that.
But anyway let me try to spell it out for you. Your claim(straight from the Zionist playbook) that Jordan is essentially the land of the Palestinians because there might have been more Arabs living in that part of Palestine and the claim that the land west of Jordan River used to be "Jewish area" so Jews have a right to take it from Palestine and make it their own state is ludicrous.
Now let me break all that down for you. British Mandate of 'Palestine' included TransJordan to the east(currently known as Jordan) and Palestine to the West. Now read what the The Balfour Declaration (dated 2 November 1917) stated : "His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object..."[1]
Mark the staggering words - "national home for the Jewish people" was established in "Palestine" - not the other way around. So you can try to twist history all you want - but the internationally known fact is that Israel(the Jewish homeland) was created after dividing the existing Palestine.
Now let me give you a scenario to show how ridiculous your claims are. Hispanics are almost becoming majority in Texas. "The Office of the Texas State Demographer predicts that in 2030 the state will be majority Hispanic." [2]
So you think in about 50 years when the Hispanics are absolute majority in Texas, it will give them the right to bring all their Hispanic brothers/sisters from all over the world and kick the non-Hispanics out of Texas and create a Hispanic state ? Just because a minority community is concentrated in one part of the area of a nation, does not justify that outsiders can come and divide this nation and unfairly give the majority of the land to this minority population.
I think this should have been enough to respond to the false propaganda claims that you brought forth but I will actually go further and show you the numbers as you have asked.
According to Alexander Scholch, Palestine in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews. In Jerusalem itself, at that time, there were 1025 Muslim households compared to 630 Jewish households compared to 738 Christian households.[3]
In his paper 'Demography in Israel/Palestine: Trends, Prospects and Policy Implications'[7] Sergio DellaPergola, drawing on the work of Bachi (1975), provides rough estimates of the population of Palestine west of the River Jordan by religion groups. According to that study, in 1890 there were 43,000 Jews compared to 432,000 Muslims West of Jordan River - not to mention that there were more Christians (57,000) than Jews. [3]
"In 1920, the League of Nations' Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine stated that there were hardly 700,000 people living in Palestine:
There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ. Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants. The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years..." [3]
So it is quite clear that before the advent of Zionism in full force, Muslims were majority in all of Palestine and not only in Transjordan.
[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
[2]http://www.bostonreview.net/BR37.1/stephen_ansolabehere_shifting_demographics_hispanics_america.php
[3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Palestine
Peace.
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1robin
Christian/Baptist
You mean that when people that owned that land from the 17th century BC until the Muslins invaded in the 7th century AD are told to come back by the people who at that time (1948) controlled the land (Britain) to their own land they should have said no thanks someone moved into our house while were out and they should keep it even though we do not have a home at all. Britain and the UN is who decided to grant them a portion of their own land back, not Israel. Israel was fine with letting some people who had squatted on their land keep a portion of it but the squatters were not.
I don't. That is not meaningful anyway. I am not sure how you add up the 1700BC to 2000AD but it looks close to 4000 years to most folks. The Arabians came from Ishmael who was specifically denied Israel for his portion of land from God. The Jewish people came from Isaac who was specifically given Israel as his portion. When the sons of Isaac were expelled by force or simply conquered where they were overt 2000 years later, the sons of Ishmael and others took their land and would not allow the true owners a single acre of it back. When the true owners were given a portion of it back by the authorities they were attacked by five nations that had no claim to any of the land. Israel beat all five and combinations of them since then and so now people fire rockets at Jewish children in protest and complain about land they never had any legal title to.
On 14 May 1948, Israel proclaimed its independence. Less than 24 hours later, the regular armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq invaded the country, forcing Israel to defend the sovereignty it had regained in its ancestral homeland. http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts About Israel/History/HISTORY- The State of Israel
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loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
loverOfTruth, you do very little for your credibility by promulgated such consense as ...
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
I actually gave 1robin his type of response without bothering much about the details
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1robin
Christian/Baptist
Those history books are danged inconvenient for you aren't they. You have yet to post single fact beyond emotional rhetoric, conjecture, and wishful thinking. I concur that this discussion is a waste of time. Facts have no power to overcome what someone wishes to be true.