Killing is not a solution at all. The human race seems to think violence is a solution: And I mean all humans.
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Israel, What in the hell?
- Thread starter MattersOfTheHeart
- Start date
Killing is not a solution at all. The human race seems to think violence is a solution: And I mean all humans.
CMike
Well-Known Member
Killing is necessary if it keep you from getting killed.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
I'm not aware of anyone in this thread stating that they don't support Israel, and Avi's comments do not imply that he doesn't, as well. There is a difference between rational debate about the actions in the me and simply 'support of Israel'.
CMike
Well-Known Member
What happens if two men with guns break into your house, and try to rape and kill your family?
Would you support the police using violence to stop them?
If yes, why yes?
If not, why not?
Israel is a colonist state and it is currently being run by right-wing warmongering racists, so it is no surprise.
CMike
Well-Known Member
That's not what I quite said, is it?
The muslim leadership that wants to destroy Israel is wrong.
Israel will do whatever it can to stop that from happening.
Peace will only occur when the arabs want it. As of now, they don't.
CMike
Well-Known Member
Wow that was very insightful. :faint:
In fact, just the opposite. Israel doesn't want to conquer anyplace.
It was the arab countries that have repeatedly tried to invade and destroy Israel.
Israel wants to be left alone.
Yes, of course, I agree. People do have a right to defend themselves. Sometimes people need to use force to stop someone from harming another person. If all my neighbors wanted to annhilate my family, I would do what I could to stop them. Although I prefer non-violence, sometimes it needs to be used.
MattersOfTheHeart
Active Member
As I suspected Cmike, you are a parrot, in the nicest sense of the word.
There are parrots on both sides, copying and pasting like there is no tomorrow. Thanks for proving me correct.
I will comment on one other thing, just because I know it will illicit the exact response I expect.
If one were to examine the structure and the facilities management of Israel defense forces and their buildings one would see they are largely around civilian populated areas.
When visiting Israel, it is all to common to see soldiers out with the civilians because it is so close in proximity.
Yet, here's the kicker Cmike, mostly soldiers die when rockets come from Gaza. How exactly is that?
Why would Israel build many of its military installations around such heavily populated areas? And, yet, how are there so many civilians that don't get hit?
Point is Cmike, we could go on and on, back and forth about how Israel is just like those it claims to be against.
However, if you take the average citizen over there, the guy just trying to make a living, on both sides, and they just love each other.
You know for centuries the mix of Jews (5%), Muslims(85%) and Christians(10%) lived in mostly peace. What happened to change that? What happened in the late 1800's Cmike?
What good does any of the verbal jockying really do? I condemn both Hamas and Israel for what is happening, but mostly Israel. You on the other hand and your ilk, can only blame Hamas.
There is a saying, and it goes something like this "some Jews are destined to greatness only if they can find enough people to hate them" so it is in their makeup to be hated.
Not all mind you, but there are those that secretly praise Hitlers and the like, because out of Auschwitz an Israeli state was born.
Some have learned to use their suffering as a tool to cause trouble. You wouldn't be one of those now would you Cmike?
Yeah, let's cry for the children together, and stick our head in the sand and point fingers. So much is accomplished.
There are parrots on both sides, copying and pasting like there is no tomorrow. Thanks for proving me correct.
I will comment on one other thing, just because I know it will illicit the exact response I expect.
If one were to examine the structure and the facilities management of Israel defense forces and their buildings one would see they are largely around civilian populated areas.
When visiting Israel, it is all to common to see soldiers out with the civilians because it is so close in proximity.
Yet, here's the kicker Cmike, mostly soldiers die when rockets come from Gaza. How exactly is that?
Why would Israel build many of its military installations around such heavily populated areas? And, yet, how are there so many civilians that don't get hit?
Point is Cmike, we could go on and on, back and forth about how Israel is just like those it claims to be against.
However, if you take the average citizen over there, the guy just trying to make a living, on both sides, and they just love each other.
You know for centuries the mix of Jews (5%), Muslims(85%) and Christians(10%) lived in mostly peace. What happened to change that? What happened in the late 1800's Cmike?
What good does any of the verbal jockying really do? I condemn both Hamas and Israel for what is happening, but mostly Israel. You on the other hand and your ilk, can only blame Hamas.
There is a saying, and it goes something like this "some Jews are destined to greatness only if they can find enough people to hate them" so it is in their makeup to be hated.
Not all mind you, but there are those that secretly praise Hitlers and the like, because out of Auschwitz an Israeli state was born.
Some have learned to use their suffering as a tool to cause trouble. You wouldn't be one of those now would you Cmike?
Yeah, let's cry for the children together, and stick our head in the sand and point fingers. So much is accomplished.
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Avi1001
reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
All strawman arguments. You oversimplify the situation, and then offer a simplistic, but wrong solution.
Do you believe the Arabs are some monolithic group ? "Peace will only occur when the Arabs want it", you tell us.
What about the moderate Muslims ? Why not work with them so that the extremists, like yourself, are forced to come around ? Why not work on some humanitarian problems, so that at least children and the infirm might be given better lives ?
Do you believe the Arabs are some monolithic group ? "Peace will only occur when the Arabs want it", you tell us.
What about the moderate Muslims ? Why not work with them so that the extremists, like yourself, are forced to come around ? Why not work on some humanitarian problems, so that at least children and the infirm might be given better lives ?
MattersOfTheHeart
Active Member
Israel used the kidnapping of three teens that had nothing to do with Hamas to start a war.
but...
"they just want to be left alone"
but...
"they just want to be left alone"
The war has been going on for decades; this was just another ugly flare up.
Israel takes Hamas at its word when Hamas says it wants nothing less than the destruction of Israel and the expulsion of all Jews from the land. And there isn't going to be lasting peace as long as that is their mantra.
I think a two-state solution is possible, but it isn't going to happen as long as Hamas is in power.
GoodbyeDave
Well-Known Member
Well you are now. I'm deeply ashamed that it was Britain that permitted Jewish colonisation of Palestine, and I suspect there'll never be peace so long as that racist state continues.
Avi1001
reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Also, not likely as long as Netanahu is there.
And two and even three-state solutions sound great, but until the people stop killing each other, an n-state solution won't solve the problem.
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I am used to what goes on over there.
Still, I do what I can to pull my tax money out of the debacle.
No, Israel has conquered what it wants and so now wants to be left alone.
Back in the olden days, most of human history, this issue would have been resolved in a couple of years. When a relatively powerful people invaded some territory, the indigenous people went away. A few might assimilate or move, but most were slaughtered or died off. In the "might makes right" world, the losers vanished and the winners wrote history books. Often they gave the glory for their victories to God. The history of the Israelites and the USA are both full of this. So is Muslim and many other cultures. But by the middle of the 20th century that didn't work so well.
So now the human race is stuck with an intractable problem. Both the Zionists and the indigenous people (I'll call them Palestinians) have legitimate issues. The way the whole thing got started and progressed seems guaranteed to keep the conflict vicious permanently. The Palestinians aren't going to die off for Israel's peace, and the Zionists aren't going to give up what they bought, built and fought for over the last century.
For most of 20th century Israel has been the doughty David against Goliath(s). From the ugliness of EuroChristian antiJew culture to the horror of Nazi Germany to the attacks by the Arab neighbors, but things have changed. Israel is now Goliath to the Palestinian David. They have the most powerful military in the area and the support of the worlds most militaristic nation, USA.
Until the USA is willing to cut off military aid and UN support to Israel AND the Palestinian allies around the Muslim world offer them something more than propaganda and useless rockets things are going to keep getting worse. For that to happen the rest of the world has to see peace as more important than their short term political interests. The Israelis and Palestinians are not capable of doing this on their own.
I don't think this is impossible, but it will require more leadership than I have ever seen out of world leaders. And the reason I think it matters so much is that I see it as the likely flashpoint for the global war the human race is headed towards. The extremists on both sides are threatening the future of everyone.
Tom
CMike
Well-Known Member
Hamas shooting hundreds of rockets into Israel's populated cities had something to do with it.
Yes, they want to be left alone.
MattersOfTheHeart
Active Member
Before rockets were sent, Israel soldiers arrested hudnreds of civilians and peoples in Gaza supposedly looking for kidnappers. They harassed and even damaged property. That is when things escalated.
Do you even know that Israel officials themselves are on record saying Hamas had nothing to do with that kidnapping?
So, what was it, the kidnapping or the rockets Cmike? Can't have it both ways.
If you say rockets, your lying
If you say kidnapping, then it is admitting Israel acted on ZERO intel and started to provoke a war.
Rockets didn't fly until Israel infiltrated the area and arrested hundreds of people, and FOR WHAT????
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
You are certainly not up to date.
Recently Hamas admitted that it was a Hamas operation.
CMike
Well-Known Member
Let me correct your misstatements.
Hamas admitted that they did the kidnappings.
Hamas Admits To Kidnapping And Killing Israeli Teens : NPR
Gaza War: Hamas Admits Kidnapping Three Israeli Teens - NBC News
Attempt to comprehend the significance of this. The government of Hamas, admitted that they kidnapped and murdered three Israeli teenagers.
Obviously, Israel is going to attempt those reponsible for these kidnappings. You think they should just let it go?:slap:
Gaza stated launching rockets. Before Israel went into gaza they offered a ceasefire. Hamas rejected it.
Since that time Hamas rejected numerous ceasefires including their own.
We will see how long this ceasefire lasts.
The fact that the Gaza governement engineered a plan to kidnap and murder three civilian Israeli teenagers should show you the type of evilness Israel is dealing with.