Israeli police shoot to kill a Palestin woman too close

[Godobeyer]

Lol, for me...it has nothing to do with Muslim. I don't think you are begging sympathy. I think you were asking people to look at the event fairly.There is nothing wrong with that. But I have looked at it fairly. I question whether you are looking at it fairly.

I don't like the police shooting anyone. But, if I look at it fairly some police shootings are justified.

This is what I am working with:

1) A person brandishing a knife in a crowded area (notice I did not say Muslim as this evaluation is the same for any person over the age of 18)

2) the police have a duty to intervene and protect the people. This is true regardless of whether the person is holding the knife in a threatening manner, trying to stab people or just walking in circles.

3)the police ought to be able to use resources provided for them to do their jobs.

4) police are constantly put in harm's way fulfilling their job requirements. Police should be able to act to reasonably reduce potential harm to themselves and to reduce risk of death or severe bodily injury. This reduction of risk includes using a continuum of force up to deadly force.

you working with opinion of Police and taked their claims as reality !!!
this case will run in inverstigation to court , they will judged .

Deadly force should only be employed when a police officer or member of the public is faced with the potential for great bodily harm or death.

So the police need to engage a suspect wielding a knife, demanding that suspect to drop the knife, lay on the ground, and keep hands visable are all reasonable demands that must be followed to help ensure officer and public safety.

Refusal to lay on the ground or to stop are certainly violations which ought to incur a use of force, but not deadly force. Refusal to put down a weapon in conjunction with these other refusals however, is enough to constitute use of deadly force.

you had videos
in this case do you agree that they used deadly force against her in that situation ?

how many people you saw in video ,she stabbed ?

Muslim doesn't enter into the equation. I am not sure what non lethal tools these police have available. If they do not have them, they should.

There are certainly nuanced arguments that I think are valid. However, these nuanced arguments are very situation dependent. And again these would not matter if the person was Muslim or not.

in Isreal your religion or race make different, so if she was a Jew , will not executed like that .

I can see fair arguments against these police saying:

A) the police had the situation contained, no deadly force was necessary unless she lashed out. The police could have kept the situation contained until a negotiator arrived. (I don't know whether this police force has negotiators)

B) the police had the situation contained they could have used a form of less lethal force to subdue the woman such as bean bag bullets, pepper paintballs, directional sound, or rubber bullets. If the police are not equipped with these but have access to them, the situation was contained enough to send someone to get these. (I don't know what access this police force has to these)

their negotiator is their guns i suppose .

But none of this changes that the police have a duty to do something. I am not sure what there protocol is, but we cannot expect them to engage is hand to hand combat when such would increase the risk of harm to an officer, and we cannot expect them to wait around all day. If they do not have access to a negotiator, or a psychologist, or less lethal weapons, they did very well. They subdued the woman, with out causing loss of life.

If you cannot see this, then you will need to explain better because from my standpoint it seems you are not being very fair to the police.

If you want to say that the police handle non Muslims differently, show how they would have handled a non Muslim in this situation. I have left religion out of the equation. Largely because I don't know how they handle other religious people in this situation, so I cannot say whether there is disparate treatment.

I remember a similaire case , when a Jew stabbed LGBT parade
, the police catch him , never ever neuralized him or shoot him , he stabbed 6 people this year 2015, the same man did the same crime 2005, alsoe no one had shoot him

 

[Flankerl]

I remember a similaire case , when a Jew stabbed LGBT parade
, the police catch him , never ever neuralized him or shoot him , he stabbed 6 people this year 2015, the same man did the same crime 2005, alsoe no one had shoot him

Because he was in the middle of the crowd you genius.

that's you opinion that i don't consider it .

Ah of course.
So this didn't happen.

But the Jews probably edited the video. We even edited the local language into the video. So Jewish of us.

mayb ,because your hate to Muslims and Arabs running like the blood ?

No idea what you mean by that.

your hate to Muslims and Arabs maybe?

Well good that I am not out there stabbing random Muslims or Arabs.

again how you be sure she had knife ?

ah that's why all Muslims are suspect , even the innocents .

It's in the Video. Though I understand that you don't know what frames are and that you didn't even watched the video frame by frame.
So yeah she probably had flowers in her hand. That's why everyone was so scared and jumped away when they saw her.

Flowers man, they kill you.

don't put words in my mouth

i can say I don't hate all Israeli and all Jews .

I post this thread about this innocent , because she badly treated by people wearing uniform who suppose saving innocents , you defending for these cowards like HEROS , and you take their words as holly book .

Good job on dodging the question about the daily knife attacks. You should become a politician.

She is also alive, I know that annoys you.

that's does not clean that Jews (police and military) made crimes against Muslims by cold blood .

Hey why so defensive? Aren't they just liberating Palestine one Jew at a time?

And thanks for the answer, obviously the stuff is not broadcasted in the Arab/Muslim world.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

While I'm pretty much done trying to talk to @Godobeyer - it is an obvious waste of my time - some here might be interested in the case of Ahmed Mansara as reported in Haaretz. For those of you who do not have premium access, I quote:

The medical condition of Ahmed Mansara, a 13-year-old boy who took part in stabbing attack in Jerusalem on Monday, has improved and considered light-to-moderate, Hadassah University Hospital, Ein Karem said on Thursday.

On Wednesday evening Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas accused Israel of "executing" Ahmed, even though he was still alive.

The Prime Minister's Office on Thursday released photos of Mansara in the hospital to the local and international media. A senior Israeli official said the move was meant to refute Abbas' claim that Mansara was executed by Israeli soldiers.

On Wednesday, the Prime Minister's Office released a video of the attack in Pisgat Ze'ev with captions in Arabic. The clip was distributed to Arab media outlets and was posted in Arabic on official social media accounts. Mansara's photos were also sent to Arab media.

Ahmed and his relative, 17-year-old Mohammed Mansara, carried out a stabbing attack in the Jerusalem neighborhood of Pisgat Ze'ev on Monday. The attack left two Israelis wounded: A 13-year-old boy, who was riding his bicycle was critically wounded, and a young man in his 20s, who also suffered severe wounds.
Ahmed Mansra was seriously injured after he was hit by a car when passersby began chasing the two Palestinians. The other assailant continued to flee until he ran into a contingent of Border Police, who ordered him to drop his knife. When he refused to do so and instead continued running toward them, they shot him to death.

Abbas' bureau and the PLO's negotiating department, which is also responsible for international advocacy activities on behalf of the Palestinian Authority, circulated on Thursday a "reinvented" version in English of Abbas' speech from Wednesday night. In the English version, they changed the words "execution" of 13-year-old Ahmed Mansara to "shooting in cold blood."

Propaganda laced with lies does little but engender hatred and violence while discrediting the source.

 

[Godobeyer]

Because he was in the middle of the crowd you genius.

and woman was bus station and did not run or do anything so why mass shooted her , so bullets may reach people .

I am genuis innocent Jews are more value than innocents Muslims to you and some other Jews ?

Ah of course.
So this didn't happen.

But the Jews probably edited the video. We even edited the local language into the video. So Jewish of us.

you just post a similaire situation to woman (she back , BUT suspect go forward to attack) one police shot the suspect NOT mass shoot him .

No idea what you mean by that.

pretending ?

Well good that I am not out there stabbing random Muslims or Arabs.

so of Jews are doing that job instead of you .
your hate is enough .

It's in the Video. Though I understand that you don't know what frames are and that you didn't even watched the video frame by frame.
So yeah she probably had flowers in her hand. That's why everyone was so scared and jumped away when they saw her.

Flowers man, they kill you.

the video show nothing clear what she carry , show nothing that she stabb

show she back and surrounded by police then suddenly without any reason they mass shooting her by cold blood .

Good job on dodging the question about the daily knife attacks. You should become a politician.

She is also alive, I know that annoys you.

I am free to choice what subject to post .

What annoys me that you justify to that murder and mass shoot since you watched videos ,especially the second one !

Hey why so defensive? Aren't they just liberating Palestine one Jew at a time?

I don't understand your point .

And thanks for the answer, obviously the stuff is not broadcasted in the Arab/Muslim world.

who told you that broadcasted in Muslim world ?

some channels are do ,and some others don't .

 

[Godobeyer]

While I'm pretty much done trying to talk to @Godobeyer - it is an obvious waste of my time - some here might be interested in the case of Ahmed Mansara as reported in Haaretz. For those of you who do not have premium access, I quote:

​

Propaganda laced with lies does little but engender hatred and violence while discrediting the source.

both leaders are losers , but for my opinion which take control on ground
take his responsibility , so most of the blame is on Israeli leaders .

for my opinion what required is now : a promise for Palestinians for a country, they had their parts in Holly places ,
so freedom and justice and rights back to their people so all these abuse will over.

don't waste your time , it's just some people can't take the habit of abuse and occupation and racist and distinction.

 

[Flankerl]

and woman was bus station and did not run or do anything so why mass shooted her , so bullets may reach people .

I am genuis innocent Jews are more value than innocents Muslims to you and some other Jews ?

She approached the group from the back which apparently scared those who saw her quite much. I wonder why, you don't. Why?

you just post a similaire situation to woman (she back , BUT suspect go forward to attack) one police shot the suspect NOT mass shoot him .

There is only one problem.
The man died from one bullet. The woman didn't from a "mass shooting" or "execution".
Oh and she moved the second before she was shot.

pretending ?

No I quite simply don't understand every sentence you write.

so of Jews are doing that job instead of you .
your hate is enough .

I have yet to harm a single Arab or Muslim. Good try though.

the video show nothing clear what she carry , show nothing that she stabb

show she back and surrounded by police then suddenly without any reason they mass shooting her by cold blood .

She wasn't surrounded, quite obviously because its a bad idea when firearms are involved.

Oh and she is alive in an Israeli Hospital. You are welcome.

I am free to choice what subject to post .

What annoys me that you justify to that murder and mass shoot since you watched videos ,especially the second one !

She is still alive and wasn't killed or murdered.

And of course you are free to do so, it just tells me something about you.

I don't understand your point .

Nevermind.

who told you that broadcasted in Muslim world ?

some channels are do ,and some others don't .

So the various videos of Jews being stabbed/murdered are shown in the Muslim world?

 

[FearGod]

She approached the group from the back which apparently scared those who saw her quite much. I wonder why, you don't. Why?

They heard the sound of the knife.

 

[Flankerl]

They heard the sound of the knife.

Actually they saw her.

 

[FearGod]

Actually they saw her.

In Jordan we use guns against our enemies, we don't use knives.
Lets your coward soldiers try to enter Jordan, they didn't enter Gaza then how they dare to enter Jordan, hilarious indeed.

Are you sure they saw her from their backs ?

 

[Godobeyer]

She approached the group from the back which apparently scared those who saw her quite much. I wonder why, you don't. Why?

i am not talking moment of accusation, i am talking about moment she back from police then police shoot her inspite she did not attack (she was getting back )

There is only one problem.
The man died from one bullet. The woman didn't from a "mass shooting" or "execution".
Oh and she moved the second before she was shot.

that's God willing, not soldier wish .

No I quite simply don't understand every sentence you write.

ok

I have yet to harm a single Arab or Muslim. Good try though.

you harm by your unfair and unjustice opinion and generalizing, that not enough against Muslims and Arabs ?

She wasn't surrounded, quite obviously because its a bad idea when firearms are involved.

Oh and she is alive in an Israeli Hospital. You are welcome.

she was shooted by 6 gunmen in close distance thats not surrounded !!!


how she is alive because Israel feel guilty about her ?

She is still alive and wasn't killed or murdered.

And of course you are free to do so, it just tells me something about you.

if someone try to killed you , you survive ,that maybe God luck

So the various videos of Jews being stabbed/murdered are shown in the Muslim world?

yes , not sure about all media staff of Israel with Media of Muslims

for my opinion some media show the both (Jews being stabbed and Jews stabbing ) that according the Boss of that channel .

 

[Flankerl]

Better for you to shut up, In Jordan we use guns against our enemies, we don't use knives.
Lets your coward soldiers try to enter Jordan, they didn't enter Gaza then how they dare to enter Jordan, hilarious indeed.

Are you sure they saw her from their backs ?

Too bad that I don't live in Jordan so you can't forbid me to write what I want. You also can't threaten my family. That must be weird for you.

Oh and the last time the "coward soldiers" fought Jordan it lost the entire West Bank in a matter of days.
A few years later the PLO tried to take over Jordan and when Syria intervened on side of the PLO the coward soldiers even helped Jordan. Syrian troops retreaded back into Syria.

btw not all in the group had their backs to her. Apparently you haven't even watched the video.

i am not talking moment of accusation, i am talking about moment she back from police then police shoot her inspite she did not attack (she was getting back )

Except of course that every moment is important in such a confrontation. Especially the moment which lead to it.

that's God willing, not soldier wish .

We in the civilised world call it medical treatment.

you harm by your unfair and unjustice opinion and generalizing, that not enough against Muslims and Arabs ?

Call me when I hunt Arabs and Muslims. Though if I were you I wouldn't hold my breath.

she was shooted by 6 gunmen in close distance thats not surrounded !!!


how she is alive because Israel feel guilty about her ?

No being surrounded includes being surrounded.

She is alive because the Israeli medical staff saved her life. You are welcome.

if someone try to killed you , you survive ,that maybe God luck

Don't you have any Doctors in Algeria? Even sub-Saharan Africa has Doctors.
Its generally a good advise to have them.

 

[FearGod]

Too bad that I don't live in Jordan so you can't forbid me to write what I want. You also can't threaten my family. That must be weird for you..

That is crap.

Oh and the last time the "coward soldiers" fought Jordan it lost the entire West Bank in a matter of days.
A few years later the PLO tried to take over Jordan and when Syria intervened on side of the PLO the coward soldiers even helped Jordan. Syrian troops retreaded back into Syria.

Go and fight Iran before they success in making the nuclear bomb, Netanyahu is right about Iran but why asking the help from the Americans to fight for you,
why not stop Iran before it destroys Israel.

btw not all in the group had their backs to her. Apparently you haven't even watched the video.

And the others were watching her and once they saw the knife they ran and she ran after them.

 

[Godobeyer]

btw not all in the group had their backs to her. Apparently you haven't even watched the video.

seems she was so far from them (re-read my title) .

Except of course that every moment is important in such a confrontation. Especially the moment which lead to it.

since she was back which moment which lead them to shoot her ?

We in the civilised world call it medical treatment.

I am believer , medical treatement is nothing without God decision

Call me when I hunt Arabs and Muslims. Though if I were you I wouldn't hold my breath.

99% of your replies is against Muslims and Arabs , so you apprentally your hate is always won .

No being surrounded includes being surrounded.

She is alive because the Israeli medical staff saved her life. You are welcome.

she is lucky that she did not remedy by people like you , but for sure she shooted by people share your feeling against Muslims and Arabs .

Don't you have any Doctors in Algeria? Even sub-Saharan Africa has Doctors.
Its generally a good advise to have them.

are you believer in God or not ?
could Doctors run against God willing ? not every serious condition could survive , there is normal/easy condition could not survive , that all goes to Allah not doctors .

doctors are just reasons not real cause

 

[Curious George]

you working with opinion of Police and taked their claims as reality !!!
this case will run in inverstigation to court , they will judged .



you had videos
in this case do you agree that they used deadly force against her in that situation ?

how many people you saw in video ,she stabbed ?


in Isreal your religion or race make different, so if she was a Jew , will not executed like that .

their negotiator is their guns i suppose .



I remember a similaire case , when a Jew stabbed LGBT parade
, the police catch him , never ever neuralized him or shoot him , he stabbed 6 people this year 2015, the same man did the same crime 2005, alsoe no one had shoot him

I am not working with opinions of police: I have not read any police statements about this.

I am giving deference to police decision making. That is because doing so is a necessity.

Yes, if those were real bullets, they used deadly force.

I agree that she did not appear to have tried to stab anyone.

I am not discussing whether in Israel, race/religion makes a difference, I am only discussing the case at hand.

Do you think the only difference between this case and the lgbt case is race?

 

[Godobeyer]

I am not working with opinions of police: I have not read any police statements about this.

I am giving deference to police decision making. That is because doing so is a necessity.

Yes, if those were real bullets, they used deadly force.

they seems used real bullets

In most of cases Israelis used real bullets

I agree that she did not appear to have tried to stab anyone.

you know what , you are first Western post this opinion in this thread !!.

is this hard for them to say ," she did not try to stab anyone during they shooting her ?"

I am not discussing whether in Israel, race/religion makes a difference, I am only discussing the case at hand.

Do you think the only difference between this case and the lgbt case is race?

it's seems you had no idea how Palestinians treating in Israel .


that Jew stabbing lgbt two times 2005/2015 , he goes for jail, he never being shoot , he just arrested

Give me one single exemple that Jew policeman shoot a Jew in Israel , because they found him stabbing the people , in past or now ?

 

[nabella6901]

The police must also deal with other possibilities like that she's also got a gun, maybe she's got a bomb. You are talking with after the fact knowledge, while the police don't know yet. Also you have to realize, if the police take a risky action of say a 10 percent chance with their own life, and then doing that 5 times a year for 20 years, then the likelyhood is that being a policeman will get you killed. So even when it looks like a 90 percent chance of the policeman could do something to save the woman and getting out alive, that's not really very good odds for a career in the police.

And when you're brandishing a knife around, sure you then could get shot and killed, that's your own fault then. Also because the suspicion is that she seems afilliated to wanton murderers. It would be good if somebody can save the woman, in which case she would spend 20+ years in prison, but killing her is a fair option.

Are you Muslim or a Jew?

 

[rosends]

For some light reading
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-police-shooting-man-venice-20150713-story.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34284044

http://www.cbs46.com/story/26386202/1-person-shot-at-woodruff-park-in-atlanta

http://q13fox.com/2015/09/29/early-morning-shooting-in-north-seattle-sends-one-to-hospital/

http://nypost.com/2014/10/23/man-shot-dead-after-striking-cop-in-the-head-with-ax/

apparently, sometimes people who carry knives get shot. The range of articles shows that sometimes, the person stabs. Other times, he runs, and sometimes, he just doesn't drop the weapon. The common theme? He gets shot.

Moral? Don't walk around brandishing a knife. From that moment, you are already not innocent.

As a side note, sometimes bystanders get shot when the police choose to shoot in a bad situation. Other times, police choose not to shoot until they can do so safely or until there is no other choice. Police are trained and have to make difficult decisions when life is on the line. i do not envy them this responsibility.

 

[Godobeyer]

For some light reading
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-police-shooting-man-venice-20150713-story.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34284044

http://www.cbs46.com/story/26386202/1-person-shot-at-woodruff-park-in-atlanta

http://q13fox.com/2015/09/29/early-morning-shooting-in-north-seattle-sends-one-to-hospital/

http://nypost.com/2014/10/23/man-shot-dead-after-striking-cop-in-the-head-with-ax/

apparently, sometimes people who carry knives get shot. The range of articles shows that sometimes, the person stabs. Other times, he runs, and sometimes, he just doesn't drop the weapon. The common theme? He gets shot.

Moral? Don't walk around brandishing a knife. From that moment, you are already not innocent.

As a side note, sometimes bystanders get shot when the police choose to shoot in a bad situation. Other times, police choose not to shoot until they can do so safely or until there is no other choice. Police are trained and have to make difficult decisions when life is on the line. i do not envy them this responsibility.

how about Israel , now and past , did Jewish Police in Israel shoot Jew for stabb someone ?
you will be lucky if you find one .

for my OP , do you watch the first video and second video ?

they just suspect that she carry a knife they shoot her , since she back and did not threat anyone .

 

[rosends]

how about Israel , now and past , did Jewish Police in Israel shoot Jew for stabb someone ?
you will be lucky if you find one .

for my OP , do you watch the first video and second video ?

they just suspect that she carry a knife they shoot her , since she back and did not threat anyone .

As I stated, not every case requires shooting (like the case where the attacker was in the midst of other people). I watched the video as I have others. She had a knife. She didn't drop it. She held it in a threatening pose. Bad idea.

 

[Godobeyer]

As I stated, not every case requires shooting (like the case where the attacker was in the midst of other people). I watched the video as I have others. She had a knife. She didn't drop it. She held it in a threatening pose. Bad idea.

they thought she had a knife .

No she had not knife , did you watch the scandel video , when knife put close to her head ?

during they shooting her , she was back NOT threaten anyone , they suddenly shoot her .