Israelites were polytheistic

[outhouse]

It is quite possible for one culture to adopt other cultures, including traditions, fables and myths.

factual not just possible

the OT is full of Sumerian and Mesopotamian and Canaanite Mythology, retold as Israelite mythology, as the koran is retold for others

 

[Shermana]

It only prove that Muhammad know of the myth about Solomon speaking to animals, winds and demons, and had adopted it into the Qur'an. it (Testament of Solomon or the Qur'an) prove nothing to be factual.

The earliest legend of King Arthur belonged to the Celtic Welsh (including the Old North kingdoms, in today Scotland). The Anglo-Saxons and French had adopted Arthurian as their own.

It is quite possible for one culture to adopt other cultures, including traditions, fables and myths.

It can also prove that the NT authors considered the Solomonic legend to be fact, and that this legend apparently predated the Nazarenes. "One greater than Solomon is here" in reference to his accusation of commanding demons can only be really correctly read as referring to this legend, and the way it's phrased, it's as if the reader already knew about this connection. It leaves the door open to the idea that certain Midrashic ideas were held as in fact true whether they were written in the Tanakh or not even before the time of Muhammad, and this may have influenced why certain Midrashic legends in the Qu'ran were regarded as truth, because they held such a foundation with the Jews.

 

[paarsurrey]

It only prove that Muhammad know of the myth about Solomon speaking to animals, winds and demons, and had adopted it into the Qur'an. it (Testament of Solomon or the Qur'an) prove nothing to be factual.

The earliest legend of King Arthur belonged to the Celtic Welsh (including the Old North kingdoms, in today Scotland). The Anglo-Saxons and French had adopted Arthurian as their own.

It is quite possible for one culture to adopt other cultures, including traditions, fables and myths.

If one thinks that Quran mentions a myth pertaining to Solomon, then as mentioned by me in post #258 above “please then quote the verse of Quran with some preceding and some following for the context and then prove one's point of view.”

Anybody please

 

[gnostic]

If one thinks that Quran mentions a myth pertaining to Solomon, then as mentioned by me in post #258 above “please then quote the verse of Quran with some preceding and some following for the context and then prove one's point of view.”

I hate looking up verses from the Qur'an, because it so terribly unorganized and long-winded. And quite often the surah sometimes speak of one thing in some verses, then jump into verses totally unrelated. It is worse than the bible.

And I am less versed in the Qur'an, and I don't keep notes on which verse go where, so it is terrible chore, so I don't know where to find verses in the Qur'an like I do with the bible.

But surely you would know which verse I'm talking about than I do?

Yes? No?

Fine. I'll look it up for you. But just so you know. I am disliking the Qur'an more and more each day.

And it is not just myth, but fable, with regarding to the Qur'anic version of Solomon.

This one is about Solomon controlling the wind:

(It was Our power that
Made) the violent (unruly)
Wind flow (tamely) for Solomon,
To his order, to the land
Which We had blessed:
For We do know all things.

12. And to Solomon (We
Made) the Wind (obedient):

And the following verses about birds, ants and jinns:

16. And Solomon was David's heir.
He said: "O ye people!
We have been taught the speech"
Of Birds, and on us
Has been bestowed (a little)
Of all things: this is
Indeed Grace manifest (from God.)"

17. And before Solomon were marshalled
His hosts,—of Jinns and men
And birds, and they were all
Kept in order and ranks.

18. At length, when they came
To a (lowly) valley of ants,
One of the ants said:
"O ye ants, get into
Your habitations, lest Solomon
And his hosts crush you
(Under foot) without knowing it."

19. So he smiled, amused
At her speech; and he said:
"O my Lord! so order me
That I may be grateful
For Thy favours, which Thou
Hast bestowed on me and
On my parents, and that
I may work the righteousness
That will please Thee:
And admit me, by Thy Grace,
To the ranks of Thy
Righteous Servants."

20. And he took a muster
Of the Birds; and he said:
"Why is it I see not
The Hoopoe? Or is he
Among the absentees?"

21. "I will certainly punish him
With a severe penalty,
Or execute him, unless he
Bring me a clear reason
(For absence)."

22. But the Hoopoe tarried not
Far: he (came up and) said:
"I have compassed (territory)
Which thou hast not compassed,
And I have come to thee
From Saba with tidings true.

These verses in Ants (Surah 27) is one of the most silly dialog between a supposed king and with ants and with a Hoopoe bird.

Nothing in the Bible say that Solomon can talk to animals or controlling weathers. The only thing he had asked for, was WISDOM. Wisdom to rule wisely as king, not having conversation with birds or ants. It is something that I would expect from a children book.

Hence, it is why I say that the Qur'an is not beyond myth-making or fable-making.

Are you happy now? I've quoted for you. It is still a silly book (at least, from my perspective). What silly need for jinns, and birds, for goodness sake, to keep "order" and "rank" (27:17)?

BTW, have you read Testament of Solomon, it was written in Greek, and it mixed the story of Solomon with Greek myths, where he is no longer just a king, but a sorcerer or magician, who can controlled demons, talk to animals and control the weather. It was never meant to be taken seriously, but apparently Allah or Muhammad like mixing religion with fable/myth.

 

[paarsurrey]

I hate looking up verses from the Qur'an, because it so terribly unorganized and long-winded. And quite often the surah sometimes speak of one thing in some verses, then jump into verses totally unrelated. It is worse than the bible.

And I am less versed in the Qur'an, and I don't keep notes on which verse go where, so it is terrible chore, so I don't know where to find verses in the Qur'an like I do with the bible.

But surely you would know which verse I'm talking about than I do?

Yes? No?

Fine. I'll look it up for you. But just so you know. I am disliking the Qur'an more and more each day.

And it is not just myth, but fable, with regarding to the Qur'anic version of Solomon.

This one is about Solomon controlling the wind:




And the following verses about birds, ants and jinns:


These verses in Ants (Surah 27) is one of the most silly dialog between a supposed king and with ants and with a Hoopoe bird.

Nothing in the Bible say that Solomon can talk to animals or controlling weathers. The only thing he had asked for, was WISDOM. Wisdom to rule wisely as king, not having conversation with birds or ants. It is something that I would expect from a children book.

Hence, it is why I say that the Qur'an is not beyond myth-making or fable-making.

Are you happy now? I've quoted for you. It is still a silly book (at least, from my perspective). What silly need for jinns, and birds, for goodness sake, to keep "order" and "rank" (27:17)?

BTW, have you read Testament of Solomon, it was written in Greek, and it mixed the story of Solomon with Greek myths, where he is no longer just a king, but a sorcerer or magician, who can controlled demons, talk to animals and control the weather. It was never meant to be taken seriously, but apparently Allah or Muhammad like mixing religion with fable/myth.

I don't mind as to what is your opinion about Quran; you are free to have any opinion on anything with or without reasons; and of course one could always change one's opinion if one is reasonable and gets a reasonable response.

I am not a scholar; I am just an ordinary man in the street; I will help you answer your questions about Quran.

But before I answer it , I would like to ask you; Did this question occur to your mind naturally while you were studying Quran yourself peacefully or you read it on some anti-Islam website and you thought that you should ask it?

Please don't mind.

 

[paarsurrey]

I hate looking up verses from the Qur'an, because it so terribly unorganized and long-winded. And quite often the surah sometimes speak of one thing in some verses, then jump into verses totally unrelated. It is worse than the bible.

And I am less versed in the Qur'an, and I don't keep notes on which verse go where, so it is terrible chore, so I don't know where to find verses in the Qur'an like I do with the bible.

But surely you would know which verse I'm talking about than I do?

Yes? No?

Fine. I'll look it up for you. But just so you know. I am disliking the Qur'an more and more each day.

And it is not just myth, but fable, with regarding to the Qur'anic version of Solomon.

This one is about Solomon controlling the wind:




And the following verses about birds, ants and jinns:


These verses in Ants (Surah 27) is one of the most silly dialog between a supposed king and with ants and with a Hoopoe bird.

Nothing in the Bible say that Solomon can talk to animals or controlling weathers. The only thing he had asked for, was WISDOM. Wisdom to rule wisely as king, not having conversation with birds or ants. It is something that I would expect from a children book.

Hence, it is why I say that the Qur'an is not beyond myth-making or fable-making.

Are you happy now? I've quoted for you. It is still a silly book (at least, from my perspective). What silly need for jinns, and birds, for goodness sake, to keep "order" and "rank" (27:17)?

BTW, have you read Testament of Solomon, it was written in Greek, and it mixed the story of Solomon with Greek myths, where he is no longer just a king, but a sorcerer or magician, who can controlled demons, talk to animals and control the weather. It was never meant to be taken seriously, but apparently Allah or Muhammad like mixing religion with fable/myth.

Did you lose interest in your question? or you are still interested.

 

[gnostic]

But before I answer it , I would like to ask you; Did this question occur to your mind naturally while you were studying Quran yourself peacefully or you read it on some anti-Islam website and you thought that you should ask it?

2 replies from you. Just More bl@@dy questions.

I don't read anti-Islam websites...nor do I read pro-Islam sites. I don't have the time nor inclination to visit such sites. And it is the same with pro- or anti-Christian sites, or pro-/anti-Jewish sites or anti-/pro-atheist sites, etc.

Do you get the picture?

I do my own reading (of the scriptures), my own researches, and rely on my own interpretations. I came across the Qur'an version of Solomon when reading the Qur'an.

I didn't look these quotes from any anti-Islam website, because I have my own copy of the Qur'an. But like isaid in my previous post, even though I've read the Qur'an, I am not well-versed with the Qur'an that I could remember which chapters or verses

And since you have not answer my questions and that you've been evasive to my inquiry (by asking more damn questions) after all the trouble I went to finding those verses for you, I've lost interest and lost my patience waiting for answers from you.

All you did is just ask more questions without answering mine. If you don't want to answer my question, then bl@@dy say so; don't waste my time if you're not going to answer me. I dislike anyone who are evasive.

 

[paarsurrey]

2 replies from you. Just More bl@@dy questions.

I don't read anti-Islam websites...nor do I read pro-Islam sites. I don't have the time nor inclination to visit such sites. And it is the same with pro- or anti-Christian sites, or pro-/anti-Jewish sites or anti-/pro-atheist sites, etc.

Do you get the picture?

I do my own reading (of the scriptures), my own researches, and rely on my own interpretations. I came across the Qur'an version of Solomon when reading the Qur'an.

I didn't look these quotes from any anti-Islam website, because I have my own copy of the Qur'an. But like isaid in my previous post, even though I've read the Qur'an, I am not well-versed with the Qur'an that I could remember which chapters or verses

And since you have not answer my questions and that you've been evasive to my inquiry (by asking more damn questions) after all the trouble I went to finding those verses for you, I've lost interest and lost my patience waiting for answers from you.

All you did is just ask more questions without answering mine. If you don't want to answer my question, then bl@@dy say so; don't waste my time if you're not going to answer me. I dislike anyone who are evasive.

That is fine with me. I will help answer your question.

Qur'an 21:81/82


[21:79] And remember David and Solomon when they exercised their respective judgements concerning the crop when the sheep of certain people strayed therein by night; and We were witness to their judgment.
[21:80] We gave Solomon the right understanding of the matter and to each of them gave We wisdom and knowledge. And We subjected the mountains and the birds to celebrate God’s praises with David. And it is We Who do all such things.
[21:81] And We taught him the making of coats of mail for you, that they might protect you form each other’s violence. Will you then be thankful?
[21:82] And We subjected to Solomon the violent wind. It blew, at his bidding, toward the land which We had blessed. And We have knowledge of all things.
[21:83] And We subjected to him deep divers who dived for him, and did other work beside that; and it was We Who guarded them.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Solomon had a good navy of sailing ships that sail with the harnessing of wind; here this is hinted at. It boosted trade with the nearby states. Please read the following links.
The Holy Quran


There are many different types of sailing ships, but they all have certain basic things in common. Every sailing ship has a hull, rigging and at least one mast to hold up the sails that use the wind to power the ship.
Sailing ship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The navy of King Solomon
Ancient Ships in art history: The navy of King Solomon and Israel

I think it is quite clear.

 

[paarsurrey]

2 replies from you. Just More bl@@dy questions.

I don't read anti-Islam websites...nor do I read pro-Islam sites. I don't have the time nor inclination to visit such sites. And it is the same with pro- or anti-Christian sites, or pro-/anti-Jewish sites or anti-/pro-atheist sites, etc.

Do you get the picture?

I do my own reading (of the scriptures), my own researches, and rely on my own interpretations. I came across the Qur'an version of Solomon when reading the Qur'an.

I didn't look these quotes from any anti-Islam website, because I have my own copy of the Qur'an. But like isaid in my previous post, even though I've read the Qur'an, I am not well-versed with the Qur'an that I could remember which chapters or verses

And since you have not answer my questions and that you've been evasive to my inquiry (by asking more damn questions) after all the trouble I went to finding those verses for you, I've lost interest and lost my patience waiting for answers from you.

All you did is just ask more questions without answering mine. If you don't want to answer my question, then bl@@dy say so; don't waste my time if you're not going to answer me. I dislike anyone who are evasive.

Now I will take the second verse of Quran and try to help aswer:

Quran-34:12/13

[34:13] And to Solomon We subjected the wind; its morning course was a month’s journey, and its evening course was a month’s journey too. And We caused a fount of molten copper to flow for him. And of the Jinn were some who worked under him, by the command of his Lord. And We had told them that if any of them turned away from Our command, We would make him taste the punishment of burning fire.
The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

This clears that we understood 21:81/82 correctly.

For the lexicon used in the verses and more explanation one may read the following links.

The Holy Quran
The Holy Quran

 

[paarsurrey]

I hate looking up verses from the Qur'an, because it so terribly unorganized and long-winded. And quite often the surah sometimes speak of one thing in some verses, then jump into verses totally unrelated. It is worse than the bible.

And I am less versed in the Qur'an, and I don't keep notes on which verse go where, so it is terrible chore, so I don't know where to find verses in the Qur'an like I do with the bible.

But surely you would know which verse I'm talking about than I do?

Yes? No?

Fine. I'll look it up for you. But just so you know. I am disliking the Qur'an more and more each day.

And it is not just myth, but fable, with regarding to the Qur'anic version of Solomon.

This one is about Solomon controlling the wind:




And the following verses about birds, ants and jinns:


These verses in Ants (Surah 27) is one of the most silly dialog between a supposed king and with ants and with a Hoopoe bird.

Nothing in the Bible say that Solomon can talk to animals or controlling weathers. The only thing he had asked for, was WISDOM. Wisdom to rule wisely as king, not having conversation with birds or ants. It is something that I would expect from a children book.

Hence, it is why I say that the Qur'an is not beyond myth-making or fable-making.

Are you happy now? I've quoted for you. It is still a silly book (at least, from my perspective). What silly need for jinns, and birds, for goodness sake, to keep "order" and "rank" (27:17)?

BTW, have you read Testament of Solomon, it was written in Greek, and it mixed the story of Solomon with Greek myths, where he is no longer just a king, but a sorcerer or magician, who can controlled demons, talk to animals and control the weather. It was never meant to be taken seriously, but apparently Allah or Muhammad like mixing religion with fable/myth.

Now we come to the verses 27:16-23 from Quran;about birds, ants and jinns .

Humans have a habit of having names on animal and birds; for individuals as well as for the groups and tribes.

Ant is English translation of the word Namal of Arabic language; it is a fact that a tribe or people existed at that time with this name; and the name is still existing; one could find it on the internet:

1. Namal
2. Namal Lake is located in Rikhi, a village on one corner of the Namal valley in Mianwali, Punjab, Pakistan.
3. Namal College
4. Namal University
5. Namal Village
6. Malik Moazzam Khan Namal, name of an individual.

It should not be a matter of surprise for one as the English people have also names after ants, they love it:

1. Boy Names Starting with Ant
2. There are 127 Ant- names for baby boys.
Ant- names are fairly popular baby names for boys. The names rose in popularity from the 1900s up to the 1980s; prior to that, they were of only occasional use. At the height of their usage in 1987, 1.508% of baby boys were given Ant- names. There were 8 Ant- names ranked within the top 1000 baby names then. Ant- names have since experienced a decline in frequency. In 2010, 5 Ant- names listed among the top 1000, with a combined usage of 0.962%. Within all Ant- names, the English Anthony was the most commonly used, with a ranking of #10 and a usage of 0.7555%.

Boy Names Starting with Ant- at Baby Names Pedia - Page 1

I think gnostic should improve his knowledge by making a little research on the internet.

If gnostic refreshes his interest; I can help him on birds and jinn as well.

Is gnostic interested? I am there to help.