It May Be The Taliban Has This Right.

[F1fan]

There are a variety of comparisons between all Men and all Women, any given comparison surely showing no equality. There are, as well, aspects in their common which will demonstrate either lesser or greater capacity.

Is a dog lesser than a man? Not according to a dog standard, but surely according to both a human standard and a Divine standard.

Regards once again.

There is no known divine standard, so what are you referring to? Could it be your own standard that you wish to hold over others, but using divine as window dressing?

 

[Jonathan27]

I hope you did not just compared woman to Dogs If you did i understand why you see Talibans view of woman as right

There surely is a high level of confidence women need not be compared to dogs. Doing so might easily mishandle sensitivities.

My use of the dog standard was to show how the appropriate standards of comparisons need, in fact, to be chosen before comparisons are undertaken. If both Men and Women were compared to the standard of, say, an African giraffe, both would be inferior.

I appreciate this opportunity for comment. Thanks.

 

[danieldemol]

I read the OP and just felt so thankful that I'm not a Christian.

In my opinion.

 

[Jonathan27]

I struggle to see how the Taliban has it right, then, given that they would take away this free right for a women to choose whether she subscribes to their beliefs or not.
Indeed, I would see that as a fundamental issue.

Few places in life are just. The good news is people are able to accommodate. God is able to give us His renewal to do so.

Regards.

 

[Meow Mix]

I would be interested if you happen to have a good review paper on the subject. Or the best paper(s) in your opinion.

This is a good meta-analysis of 100 different gendered studies on math performance involving more than 3 million participants, so it has a really nice sample; done by U of Wisconsin:

Hyde, J. S., Fennema, E., & Lamon, S. J. (1990). Gender differences in mathematics performance: a meta-analysis. Psychological bulletin, 107(2), 139.

Since it's from 1990, it's scanned rather than typed -- meaning I can't just copy/paste. I can email it if you'd like, or I could paste the abstract:

Performed a meta-analysis of 100 studies (published 1963–1988) of gender differences in mathematics performance. They yielded 254 independent effect sizes, representing the testing of 3,175,188 Ss. Averaged overall effect sizes based on samples of the general population indicated that females outperformed males by only a negligible amount. An examination of age trends indicated that girls showed a slight superiority in computation in elementary school and middle school. There were no gender differences in problem solving in elementary or middle school; differences favoring men emerged in high school and college. Gender differences were smallest and actually favored females in samples of the general population, grew larger with increasingly selective samples, and were largest for highly selected samples and samples of highly precocious persons. The magnitude of the gender difference has declined over the years. Gender differences in mathematics performance are small. Nonetheless, the lower performance of women in problem solving that is evident in high school requires attention. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2016 APA, all rights reserved)

The "lower performance... in high school" is examined deeper in the paper. The authors go on to attribute the issue to social and cultural issues, not biological differences between sexes.

Most recently the same authors made another meta-study of cognition (46 studies in this one) examining the notion that men are cognitively different from women against the hypothesis that they're similar instead:

Hyde, J. S. (2005). The gender similarities hypothesis. American psychologist, 60(6), 581.

This paper's available to freely read without a subscription: http://humanbehaviors.free.fr/References - Articles/The gender similarities hypothesis.pdf

The abstract reads:

The differences model, which argues that males and females are vastly different psychologically, dominates the popular media. Here, the author advances a very different view, the gender similarities hypothesis, which holds that males and females are similar on most, but not all, psychological variables. Results from a review of 46 meta-analyses support the gender similarities hypothesis. Gender differences can vary substantially in magnitude at different ages and depend on the context in which measurement occurs. Overinflated claims of gender differences carry substantial costs in areas such as the workplace and relationships.

Which is a fairly conservative way to put the actual findings: that cognitive differences between the sexes is virtually nonexistent; and complicated by (again) social, rather than biological, factors.

This was the conclusion:

The gender similarities hypothesis stands in stark contrast to the differences model, which holds that men and women, and boys and girls, are vastly different psychologically. The gender similarities hypothesis states, instead, that males and females are alike on most— but not all—psychological variables. Extensive evidence from meta-analyses of research on gender differences supports the gender similarities hypothesis. A few notable exceptions are some motor behaviors (e.g., throwing distance) and some aspects of sexuality, which show large gender differences. Aggression shows a gender difference that is moderate in magnitude.

 

[Spiderman]

I actually got in trouble for promoting a Religious Doctrine on this site written by a regime that founded Vatican City State in 1929.

Amazingly the Doctrine I promoted contained no calls to hate or violence , racism, or bigotry.

I'm not allowed to speak of that Doctrine (which was declared to be a Religion). It contained no misogyny, hate, or calls to violence.

On the other hand, the Bible contains violence, genocide, misogyny, racism, hate, bigotry, justification of slavery, and the Koran says "kill the Idolaters wherever you see them", and speaks of those who oppose Islam getting their feet and hands cut off, boiling water poured on them, crucifixion, and burned flesh. Any psychiatrist would call me a psychopath if I wrote such fantasies or had such desires.

Yet I can't promote a Doctrine that contains none of that, while these other texts are promoted daily, and hate groups like Taliban spoken of favorably.

I'll respect the rules here. I'm just not understanding them. It's okay.

 

[Jonathan27]

Actually, there is an abundance of scientific evidence showing there are many forms of equality between the sexes, such as in cognitive capacity, memory, verbal ability, science and mathematical skill, spatial reasoning (with some social caveats), and more. I have access to papers through my university if you'd like me to post any in full.

The languages of both soft and hard science can fill only so much gappage, and then only as they are dependant upon greater realities. When one sits on a chair, there needs to be a functional confidence.

Thanks for your offer.

 

[F1fan]

There surely is a high level of confidence women need not be compared to dogs. Doing so might easily mishandle sensitivities.

My use of the dog standard was to show how the appropriate standards of comparisons need, in fact, to be chosen before comparisons are undertaken. If both Men and Women were compared to the standard of, say, an African giraffe, both would be inferior.

I appreciate this opportunity for comment. Thanks.

You mentioned a divine standard, where does this come from? And what is it? Who enforces it?

 

[Meow Mix]

@Dan From Smithville

Regarding scientific and mathematical abilities, probably the largest meta-study is Spelke, with 111 studies compiled:

Spelke, E. S. (2005). Sex differences in intrinsic aptitude for mathematics and science?: a critical review. American Psychologist, 60(9), 950.

This article considers 3 claims that cognitive sex differences account for the differential representation of men and women in high-level careers in mathematics and science: (a) males are more focused on objects from the beginning of life and therefore are predisposed to better learning about mechanical systems; (b) males have a profile of spatial and numerical abilities producing greater aptitude for mathematics; and (c) males are more variable in their cognitive abilities and therefore predominate at the upper reaches of mathematical talent. Research on cognitive development in human infants, preschool children, and students at all levels fails to support these claims. Instead, it provides evidence that mathematical and scientific reasoning develop from a set of biologically based cognitive capacities that males and females share. These capacities lead men and women to develop equal talent for mathematics and science.

Research on the cognitive abilities of males and females, from birth to maturity, does not support the claim that men have greater intrinsic aptitude for mathematics and science. Male and female infants do not differ in the cognitive abilities at the foundations of mathematical and scientific thinking; they have common abilities to represent and learn about objects, numbers, language, and space. Male and female children harness these abilities in the same ways, at the same times, to master the concepts and operations of elementary mathematics. Although older boys and girls show somewhat different cognitive profiles, the differences are complex and subtle (it is not the case, e.g., that women are verbal and men are spatial). These differences tend to be small, and they stem primarily from differing strategy choices. Above all, these differing profiles do not add up to a male or female advantage in learning advanced mathematics. High school boys show both higher mean scores and greater variability on the SAT-M, but high school and college men and women are equally proficient in mathematics classes, both on average and within the pool of the most talented students.

This one is also available in full: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.1043.7574&rep=rep1&type=pdf

 

[Jonathan27]

I am a Christian and the treatment you suggest for women is not how it has been put to me to interpret.

Effective treatment will very predictably address accurate diagnostics.

Continued regards.

 

[Meow Mix]

The languages of both soft and hard science can fill only so much gappage, and then only as they are dependant upon greater realities. When one sits on a chair, there needs to be a functional confidence.

Thanks for your offer.

What do you mean by "can fill only so much gappage?" You're speaking nebulously in a few of these replies such that it's difficult to discern what you're trying to communicate.

Again, I'm an MS student in astrophysics, bridging to my PhD in the same. Do you think this is wrong? Do you think I'm incapable of earning an advanced degree in physics because I'm a woman; or that it's wrong for me to pursue it?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

This is a good meta-analysis of 100 different gendered studies on math performance involving more than 3 million participants, so it has a really nice sample; done by U of Wisconsin:

Hyde, J. S., Fennema, E., & Lamon, S. J. (1990). Gender differences in mathematics performance: a meta-analysis. Psychological bulletin, 107(2), 139.

Since it's from 1990, it's scanned rather than typed -- meaning I can't just copy/paste. I can email it if you'd like, or I could paste the abstract:


The "lower performance... in high school" is examined deeper in the paper. The authors go on to attribute the issue to social and cultural issues, not biological differences between sexes.

Most recently the same authors made another meta-study of cognition (46 studies in this one) examining the notion that men are cognitively different from women against the hypothesis that they're similar instead:

Hyde, J. S. (2005). The gender similarities hypothesis. American psychologist, 60(6), 581.

This paper's available to freely read without a subscription: http://humanbehaviors.free.fr/References - Articles/The gender similarities hypothesis.pdf

The abstract reads:


Which is a fairly conservative way to put the actual findings: that cognitive differences between the sexes is virtually nonexistent; and complicated by (again) social, rather than biological, factors.

This was the conclusion:

Thanks. Using the title, I was able to access a copy of the first paper. Thanks for both of the articles.

I remember something from a long time ago that talked about the change in behavior between young children as they age and progress through school. In early grades, there was no difference between learning in boys and girls and the girls may actually have had an early advantage, though I do not recall those details. However, reviewing the behavior and learning with progressing age, girls gradually stood out less, and this was largely associated with culture and not any difference in performance or native ability. We seem to teach our girls to dumb themselves down and for no good reason, to make matters worse.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I read the OP and just felt so thankful that I'm not a Christian.

In my opinion.

Thankfully, not all Christians follow that interpretation. I certainly do not.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Effective treatment will very predictably address accurate diagnostics.

Continued regards.

What do you intend this to mean?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

What do you mean by "can fill only so much gappage?" You're speaking nebulously in a few of these replies such that it's difficult to discern what you're trying to communicate.

Again, I'm an MS student in astrophysics, bridging to my PhD in the same. Do you think this is wrong? Do you think I'm incapable of earning an advanced degree in physics because I'm a woman; or that it's wrong for me to pursue it?

A couple of the replies I have read appear to be intentionally obtuse or cryptic for no obvious reason.

 

[Meow Mix]

Thanks. Using the title, I was able to access a copy of the first paper. Thanks for both of the articles.

I remember something from a long time ago that talked about the change in behavior between young children as they age and progress through school. In early grades, there was no difference between learning in boys and girls and the girls may actually have had an early advantage, though I do not recall those details. However, reviewing the behavior and learning with progressing age, girls gradually stood out less, and this was largely associated with culture and not any difference in performance or native ability. We seem to teach our girls to dumb themselves down and for no good reason, to make matters worse.

What you're describing is mentioned by Hyde in one of the two Hyde papers, I forget which. Which isn't surprising, those are pretty large meta-studies, so this was undoubtedly noticed by at least some of the sub-studies.

 

[Jonathan27]

So you can't confirm that the Bible has any authority at all? Then what authority do men have over women if women object?

The Bible needs no confirmation. It stands above human opinion.

I have no authority over any woman. My daughter is an adult, my wife has become perfected with Jesus Christ.

Amy woman who wants to have security, identity, and self worth can come to God through rebirth in Jesus Christ. However, until she physically dies, she will live within the constraints of her gender, even if she pursued a transgender.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Spirit of Light]

The Bible needs no confirmation. It stands above human opinion.

I have no authority over any woman. My daughter is an adult, my wife has become perfected with Jesus Christ.

Amy woman who wants to have security, identity, and self worth can come to God through rebirth in Jesus Christ. However, until she physically dies, she will live within the constraints of her gender, even if she pursued a transgender.

Thanks for sharing.

For those who do not believe in Jesus or God, what about them? Not everyone will become christians

 

[Jonathan27]

I'm not sure what you're saying here. You say that funding education for women will "reach the same specifications given by Scripture," but your original post advocated against educating women. What do you mean by "reaches the inherent individual level?"

I'm a woman, and I'm a Masters-to-PhD bridge astrophysics student. Do you think that's wrong?

No society is obligated to provide education for anyone, beyond pragmatic reasons. Kamala Harris is educated but cannot perform any useful leadership. Her education has only trained her to be reactive to circumstances and to the words of people, and has left her bereft of any wisdom for identifying and attaining principle.

She most likely will resort to a more solitary and domestic life.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

There surely is a high level of confidence women need not be compared to dogs. Doing so might easily mishandle sensitivities.

My use of the dog standard was to show how the appropriate standards of comparisons need, in fact, to be chosen before comparisons are undertaken. If both Men and Women were compared to the standard of, say, an African giraffe, both would be inferior.

I appreciate this opportunity for comment. Thanks.

It would depend on whether you were comparing the two groups for the ability to eat food from high in a tree while standing on the ground or if you were comparing the ability of either to do calculus. In the former, men and women would be inferior. In the latter, we would be superior. However, using math as a standard of comparison, I hypothesize that an astrophysicist probably knows much more math than I do.