It seems to me that many of the atheists on here are just here because they hate Christianity.

[URAVIP2ME]

naturally

What's ' objectively true about the world ' to me are the fitting descriptive words of 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13
There it describes the selfish distorted form of love the world generally displays which is in sharp contrast to the definition of godly love as defined at 1 Corinthians 13:4-6

 

[james bond]

If every person on Earth kept their swords sheathed, to me, then what would happen is: world peace.

Obvious to me, then the words of Matthew 26:52; Revelation 13:10 are Not being adhered to by both the political and the religious. Religious agenda is often the same as POTUS agenda such as the religious using the pulpit as a recruiting station so parents will sacrifice their young on the Altar of War as if that was the same as the Altar of God.

World peace does Not come because from behind the scenes comes ' woe ' for Earth according to Revelation 12:12

I recall that the Christians people at the time of Luke 21:20-21 (years 66 to 70) left faithless Jerusalem rather than stay and fight. The nations are asked, so to speak, to lay down the sword, and as in the year 70 the faithless people in corrupted Jerusalem chose to fight. If they would have listened to Jesus' instructions and fled Jerusalem they would have been spared. We can't literally leave today, but we can choose sides. Jesus side or Not.
At the time of the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 we as to follow the instructions of Isaiah 26:20.

In our lifetime (near future) we could quite likely hear the powers that be ' they ' be found saying, " Peace and Security " as mentioned at 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3, but that is just a precursor to the coming great tribulation before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, being the one who will usher in global Peace on Earth among people of goodwill.

Interesting that the Christian people would have to choose today between a faithless Jerusalem or not. Aren't Palestinians Christians?

 

[james bond]

That's not what atheists believe.
Atheists believe that after you die, that is it, kaput, no more, worm food. You will exist just like you did 20-years before you were born; with a few small differences, hopefully people will have fond memories of you and your genes will be present in your off-spring

Atheists are usually wrong. It's not true if there are no atheists in the afterlife.

I've been reviewing this from the Christian side and it appears that we do die, i.e. physical side. Only to be resurrected later. I'm not sure what happens to our consciousness immediately after death, but we are not on earth anymore.

 

[james bond]

Thank you.


You have not demonstrated I am wrong.
You have merely declared it.

I am not saying you are wrong.
I am saying you have not convinced me you are right.



No, I am not saying it is unimportant.
I am saying I am not convinced of any after life.


I have accepted the more likely possibility that this life is all there is.
I also accept that I may very well be wrong.


Some people need a special friend crutch to help them through life.
I am not one of them.


I disagree.
The most important thing is how you live your life, not what awaits after death.
Why?
Because once you die, you are done with this life.
I have come to terms with that reality.
Don't get me wrong, i am not a fan of it, but I have come to terms with it.

IF, and in my opinion that is a mighty big if, there is an after life, there is no interaction with this one.

I think most of your above comments mean the believers are sure while the non-believers are not.

As for the most important thing, your most important thing is the probably the second most important thing to the believers. We have God as the most important thing which is tied to the afterlife, as well (See John 3:16).

 

[james bond]

I respect your ability to be reasonable.


In short, Near Death Experiences are exactly what the name suggests, a product of a brain dying. They're similar to dreams and hallucinations - A last ditch attempt at making sense of the sensory input coming into it. Also, this is not too unlike a strong religious experience, and why I imagine many religious followers always hearken back to their conversion moment in times of weakness.

Near-death studies - Wikipedia
The Trigger of Extreme Gravity: Dr. James Winnery's NDE Research

I can liken it to being high. Under the euphoria of some narcotics, people experience things that they are convinced were true states of being once they come back to the real world. They walk around for days, weeks, months, or sometimes whole lifetimes convinced that the experiences that they had were visions of a different (or better) reality. DMT comes to mind, right off hand. But I've had fairly similar experiences by just smoking a whole lot of hash...

The problem with those claims is that they are delusional. The variable is the ingesting of a foreign substance, produced to cause those types of experiences. The variable in a NDE, for example, is the extreme stress that the brain is experiencing. In both instances, there are non-normal circumstances occurring and the experiences had while under such duress cannot be equated to those had when normal.


Yes. Good film. Classic sci-fi twist.

Yeah but. NDE is of the brain dying, but it's also about sleeping consciousness. It means that if you're still dreaming after death that consciousness lives on as the neurologists have shown. They also have shown how we experience out of the body experiences, too.

 

[Altfish]

Atheists are usually wrong. It's not true if there are no atheists in the afterlife.

I've been reviewing this from the Christian side and it appears that we do die, i.e. physical side. Only to be resurrected later. I'm not sure what happens to our consciousness immediately after death, but we are not on earth anymore.

Is that so?

Good luck then, I was going to say "See you on the other side" but I'd be lying. I'm glad the thought gives you comfort.

 

[james bond]

So switching out 'heaven' for 'afterlife' changes things? How so?

A Christian believes the afterlife could be heaven, earth or hell. If you want to talk heaven, then I think of it as follows

.

However, you don't believe any of this stuff to find out so what does it matter? I just took the time to find out for myself. I started with evolution like everyone else until I really started digging.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

A Christian believes the afterlife could be heaven, earth or hell. If you want to talk heaven, then I think of it as follows

You can think of it as a pretty girl, that's fine. It has zero to do with my original question though. I have no issue with people who believe in an afterlife, or in heaven as concepts (generally).

However, you don't believe any of this stuff to find out so what does it matter? I just took the time to find out for myself. I started with evolution like everyone else until I really started digging.

Just a quick recap. You stated that;

As I stated, there are no atheists in the afterlife. The atheists claim there is no afterlife, but do not have evidence.

I find it ironic, given that no atheist would claim they can prove a lack of heaven, whilst you appear to think you know who resides there, but offer no evidence.
To which you corrected me, and suggested that it was an 'afterlife' rather than 'heaven'. Fair enough. But the original point of irony remains completely unaltered.

I'll make it simple for you;
I'm an atheist, and I don't think I can prove there is no afterlife.

Your turn to make a statement I guess....

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Atheists are usually wrong.

Having lived for a long time, and known many, many people well, I think I can informally state that those who are most often wrong in both fact and reasoning are the fundamentalist theists, followed by theists, followed by deists, with atheists and weak-atheist humanists more often in possession of real data, and better able to process it rationally.

That is a mere opinion, of course, but I stand by it.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Interesting that the Christian people would have to choose today between a faithless Jerusalem or not. Aren't Palestinians Christians?

A few I guess, but not most, no.
You're not getting confused with Lebanese, are you? They are a pretty even split between Islam and Christianity. But Palestinians are overwhelmingly Muslim.

 

[james bond]

You can think of it as a pretty girl, that's fine. It has zero to do with my original question though. I have no issue with people who believe in an afterlife, or in heaven as concepts (generally).



Just a quick recap. You stated that;


I find it ironic, given that no atheist would claim they can prove a lack of heaven, whilst you appear to think you know who resides there, but offer no evidence.
To which you corrected me, and suggested that it was an 'afterlife' rather than 'heaven'. Fair enough. But the original point of irony remains completely unaltered.

I'll make it simple for you;
I'm an atheist, and I don't think I can prove there is no afterlife.

Your turn to make a statement I guess....

It's not just a pretty girl, but all those who are destined for heaven become our best spiritual selves once they get there. Adam and Eve were perfect in every way until they messed up. Their offspring would've been perfect, too, but their parents messed up so they didn't turn out fine like Cain. It tells me that you did not take the time to understand the youtube or the Bible. What does it matter to me? My point was your non-existent afterlife and being wrong about it. You were also wrong about it just being heaven in the afterlife. It is contradicted by the Bible which states heaven, hell or earth as our final destinations.

Then you continue to state there is no evidence and I have given it to you plainly as night and day. The Bible. The world's best selling book and there are no other books close. To get to heaven, it is simply stated in John 3:16. How often does this get repeated and people still do not get it? The guide to heaven is one person's interpretation of what heaven is like from the Bible.

I can explain it to you (which I did), but I can't comprehend for you. Thus, there is no evidence that will prove God to atheists. The atheist Arizona State professor Lawrence Krauss said in a debate that he would have to reassess if God moved the stars to say, "I'm here." To which another atheist later said to a newspaper that it would not be proof because only people living on one side of the earth would see it. That convinced me there is nothing that will prove God to atheists except for pain and suffering. For example, if I claimed I am God and you said prove it and I set you hair on fire, then you may believe me. If not, then I'll set your rear end on fire or more until whatever is necessary to convince you. However, it does not convince the other atheists in the world.

I can give you evidence there is an afterlife by looking over the near death experiences and what neurologists state about the consciousness living on after death. This short life is not all there is. We are made like God and in His image. I think we all want justice and that is what comes during the second coming and Final Judgment.

There are other pov besides the atheists', and all religions as far as I know have some kind of final judgment. Even the Buddhists recognize karma and someone who is bad will suffer. The evidence is there for all of us wanting some kind of justice from bad and evil people.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It's not just a pretty girl, but all those who are destined for heaven become our best spiritual selves once they get there. Adam and Eve were perfect in every way until they messed up. Their offspring would've been perfect, too, but their parents messed up so they didn't turn out fine like Cain. It tells me that you did not take the time to understand the youtube or the Bible. What does it matter to me? My point was your non-existent afterlife and being wrong about it. You were also wrong about it just being heaven in the afterlife. It is contradicted by the Bible which states heaven, hell or earth as our final destinations.

Then you continue to state there is no evidence and I have given it to you plainly as night and day. The Bible. The world's best selling book and there are no other books close. To get to heaven, it is simply stated in John 3:16. How often does this get repeated and people still do not get it? The guide to heaven is one person's interpretation of what heaven is like from the Bible.

I can explain it to you (which I did), but I can't comprehend for you. Thus, there is no evidence that will prove God to atheists. The atheist Arizona State professor Lawrence Krauss said in a debate that he would have to reassess if God moved the stars to say, "I'm here." To which another atheist later said to a newspaper that it would not be proof because only people living on one side of the earth would see it. That convinced me there is nothing that will prove God to atheists except for pain and suffering. For example, if I claimed I am God and you said prove it and I set you hair on fire, then you may believe me. If not, then I'll set your rear end on fire or more until whatever is necessary to convince you. However, it does not convince the other atheists in the world.

I can give you evidence there is an afterlife by looking over the near death experiences and what neurologists state about the consciousness living on after death. This short life is not all there is. We are made like God and in His image. I think we all want justice and that is what comes during the second coming and Final Judgment.

There are other pov besides the atheists', and all religions as far as I know have some kind of final judgment. Even the Buddhists recognize karma and someone who is bad will suffer. The evidence is there for all of us wanting some kind of justice from bad and evil people.

Your evidence is the Bible.
A Muslims evidence is the Quran.

To be fair to the Muslim, I have a higher level of ignorance of the Quran. I was raised Anglican. Even have prayer badges from when I was in the Church Scouts.

Anyway, you let the good book convince you of whatever it convinces you of. Rail against theoretical discussions on the evidentiary requirements to prove God.

It's all quite strange to me. God could prove himself to me anytime he wanted. Clearly he doesnt want to. Fair enough. Neither of us are losing any sleep over it. If he wants to throw me in a pit for it after death, then bravo. Not exactly much I can do about that now, is there?

Oh, just as a point of order...I never stated the Bible claimed only heaven as a post-life destination. I merely paraphrased your statement about 'afterlife' as 'heaven'. As I've stated more than once, I'm happy for that to change to afterlife and it makes NO difference to my original point anyway. Which you seem constantly unwilling to directly address.

Unless, of course, it's not merely the Bible you offer as evidence, but your own certainty in your particular interpretation.

 

[Shad]

It's not just a pretty girl, but all those who are destined for heaven become our best spiritual selves once they get there. Adam and Eve were perfect in every way until they messed up.

If they were perfect in every way then they would not have messed up. Ergo messing up demonstrates that they were not perfect either in mind and/or body.

Their offspring would've been perfect, too, but their parents messed up so they didn't turn out fine like Cain.

Another demonstration that their so-called perfection is nonsense.

Then you continue to state there is no evidence and I have given it to you plainly as night and day. The Bible. The world's best selling book and there are no other books close.

Selling copies of a book does not mean it's claims are true. More so with Christianity in decline and Islam on the rise you could find the form of your argument supports the Quran in the future. Of course this is dependent on trends continuing

To get to heaven, it is simply stated in John 3:16. How often does this get repeated and people still do not get it? The guide to heaven is one person's interpretation of what heaven is like from the Bible.

You confuse people not understanding with people rejecting the claim and the result of accepting the proposal.

There are other pov besides the atheists', and all religions as far as I know have some kind of final judgment. Even the Buddhists recognize karma and someone who is bad will suffer. The evidence is there for all of us wanting some kind of justice from bad and evil people.

Common themes does not dictate truth.

 

[icehorse]

Am I wrong? Can any of you atheists say anything good about Christianity at all?

Full disclosure, I didn't read all 15 pages. I'm responding to the OP. I'm an anti-theist, I think all theism (and most deism), has become a drain on humanity. They served some useful purposes way back, a millennium or two ago, and for that we can be grateful, but they've worn out their usefulness in modern times.

 

[JakofHearts]

Full disclosure, I didn't read all 15 pages. I'm responding to the OP. I'm an anti-theist, I think all theism (and most deism), has become a drain on humanity. They served some useful purposes way back, a millennium or two ago, and for that we can be grateful, but they've worn out their usefulness in modern times.

From the top off my head, the name of someone who tried to get rid of religion (Christianity in particular), was named Stalin.

I'm curious, what kind of scheme do you have in mind that would exterminate the hearts and minds of religious people?

 

[ArtieE]

From the top off my head, the name of someone who tried to get rid of religion (Christianity in particular), was named Stalin.

You have to take that up with God.

Romans 13:1
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

 

[JakofHearts]

You have to take that up with God.

Romans 13:1
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

Read the KJV if you want to discuss Christian theology.

But, that doesn't really answer my question does it because history speaks for itself. Religion (Christianity in particular) lives on.
Christianity survived for thousands of years despite many attempts to suppress or even destroy it - instead it became the most influential religion on the planet. So seems to me your point is invalid.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Interesting that the Christian people would have to choose today between a faithless Jerusalem or not. Aren't Palestinians Christians?

The Christians of the years 66-70 chose between a literal unfaithful Jerusalem or not.
Since Pentecost the choice is between an unfaithful spiritual Jerusalem ( Christendom aka so-called Christianity )
and the first-century Christian teachings as recorded in Scripture.
Since Pentecost, Jerusalem 'above' is mother - Galatians 4:26
The 'Christian congregation' is a 'spiritual nation' - 1 Peter 2:9,5
People out of all nations make up the Christian congregation, so there would be 'some' Palestinian Christians.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

A Christian believes the afterlife could be heaven, earth or hell. If you want to talk heaven, then I think of it as follows
However, you don't believe any of this stuff to find out so what does it matter? I just took the time to find out for myself. I started with evolution like everyone else until I really started digging.

Good for you because we all need to ' dig ' for ' spiritual gems ' found throughout the pages of Scripture.

To me, how could a Christian believe in an 'hell afterlife' when the Bible's temporary hell comes to a final end.
After everyone in biblical hell is resurrected (delivered up KJV) out of hell, then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell according to Revelation 20:13-14

Our last enemy ' death ' will be No more according to 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8, so No more death, to me, means also No more hell (or No more temporary grave for the sleeping dead - John 11:12-14; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5 )

To me, those resurrected to heaven have two (2) jobs to do:
They serve in heaven with Jesus as both kings and priests - Revelation 5:9-10; Revelation 20:6; Revelation 2:10
* As kings they will take care of governmental duties over earthly subjects of God's kingdom - Psalms 72:8
* As priests they will take care of spiritual responsibilities for earthly subjects of God's kingdom.
ALL who died before Jesus' died - John 3:13; Acts 2:34; Matthew 11:11, can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to life on Earth, and then have the same opportunity to live forever on a beautiful paradisical Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

 

[icehorse]

From the top off my head, the name of someone who tried to get rid of religion (Christianity in particular), was named Stalin.

I'm curious, what kind of scheme do you have in mind that would exterminate the hearts and minds of religious people?

Stalin's strategy was to replace one set of dogma with a different set of dogma.

My strategy is education. I'd like to see comparative religion taught in public schools - at an early age. Let the kids decide for themselves which - if any - religion they want to be a part of...