Italian writer against women choosing the bear: hating men has become fashionable

[Magic Man]

Oh, the irony.

He only listens to women who tell him what he wants to hear.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Considering that my female friends complain that picking up nice men has been so difficult, it's funny that some people are portraying all men as horny wolves ready to assault any random woman they meet.

Who's done that here? Who are these "some people?"

Whenever they go out on Saturday night, my friends wear miniskirt, fishnet stockings and crop top.
If they wore some sloppy T-shirt and sweatpants, no person of male gender would even look at them.
They would ignore them as they ignore a trash bin.

I was raped while wearing exactly that.

Most of the attention I get from men, comes when I'm wearing sweatpants and a t-shirt, rather than a mini skirt and heels. You're just perpetuating rape culture stuff with that nonsense. You know the old, "Oh you were raped? Well, what were you wearing" kind of BS that we need to move past because it isn't based in reality. It's just another way to blame the victim.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So you're telling me that it is rare for you to go an entire 24 hr period without being endangered, or somehow harassed by a man?

You go ahead and conclude whatever you want. It doesn't matter what I say. You just said you don't believe me anyway.

Go tell the two imaginary women in your life all about it. I'm sure they'll agree with you.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No one?
Are you kidding me?
Most women choosing a wild animal over a person.
Were they serious?
Bears are the most unpredictable predators in the wood... come on.

We've explained why. But much like some others here, you seem unwilling to listen.

Don't change the topic please.
I asked: why do you think my female friends wear crop tops and miniskirt on Saturday night, at the nightclub?

You brought up this topic. He was responding to your claims about it.
Honestly, I'd like to see a response from you.

 

[Estro Felino]

I was raped while wearing exactly that.

Most of the attention I get from men, comes when I'm wearing sweatpants and a t-shirt, rather than a mini skirt and heels. You're just perpetuating rape culture stuff with that nonsense. You know the old, "Oh you were raped? Well, what were you wearing" kind of BS that we need to move past because it isn't based in reality. It's just another way to blame the victim.

I have never said that.
I am sorry about what you went through but You're just universalizing your situation, as if all women of the world were victims of sexual assault or rape.

I give you some news. My female friends were never sexually assaulted /raped.
And they are not ugly. They are very successful with men.

Statistically the percentage of women who have never been raped is high.
So, please... do consider that you're not the only woman on Earth. I am speaking of statistics.

I kindly invite you stop saying things I have never said.

 

[Estro Felino]

We've explained why. But much like some others here, you seem unwilling to listen.

You brought up this topic. He was responding to your claims about it.
Honestly, I'd like to see a response from you.

I have asked people to read Yasmina Pani's article and to comment it. Period.
Yasmina Pani and I agree on what the problem is.

 

[Magic Man]

I have never said that.
I am sorry for what you went through but You're just universalizing your situation, as if all women of the world were victims of sexual assault or rape.

I give you some news. My female friends were never sexually assaulted /raped.
And they are not ugly. They are very successful with men.

Statistically the percentage of women who have never been raped is high.
So, please... do consider that you're not the only woman on Earth. I am speaking of statistics.

I kindly invite you stop saying things I have never said.

Oh, the irony of you asking someone else to stop "saying things you never said".

You claimed that women who don't dress up nicely wouldn't get any attention from men, as if the only way women would get harassed or raped is if they're wearing something that makes them more attractive. She did not "universalize" her situation or suggest she's the only woman on Earth. She pointed out that women get harassed and even raped even when they're not "all dolled up".

Whether or not the percentage of women who have never been raped is high is irrelevant. You're going off on a tangent.

Whether or not your friends have been sexually assaulted or raped, whether they're ugly and whether they're successful with men is also irrelevant. The point is that women get harassed, assaulted and raped no matter how they look.

 

[Estro Felino]

Oh, the irony of you asking someone else to stop "saying things you never said".

You claimed that women who don't dress up nicely wouldn't get any attention from men, as if the only way women would get harassed or raped is if they're wearing something that makes them more attractive. She did not "universalize" her situation or suggest she's the only woman on Earth. She pointed out that women get harassed and even raped even when they're not "all dolled up".

Whether or not the percentage of women who have never been raped is high is irrelevant. You're going off on a tangent.

Whether or not your friends have been sexually assaulted or raped, whether they're ugly and whether they're successful with men is also irrelevant. The point is that women get harassed, assaulted and raped no matter how they look.

I said that my female friends love to be hit on by cute men...and they wear those clothes to draw their attention.
I have never said anything about clothes and rape.
In my country hitting on a woman is legal.

Maybe in America hitting on a woman is a federal crime.

 

[Estro Felino]

Whether or not your friends have been sexually assaulted or raped, whether they're ugly and whether they're successful with men is also irrelevant. The point is that women get harassed, assaulted and raped no matter how they look.

There is a serious problem in the US.
This European man from Slovakia would have been arrested in the US. For harassment.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I have never said that.

You never said what?

I am sorry for what you went through but You're just universalizing your situation, as if all women of the world were victims of sexual assault or rape.

Far, far too many of them are. I'd suggest looking up some numbers on sexual violence against women in the world. I think it's going to blow your mind. It is a universal problem.


"Globally, an estimated 736 million women—almost one in three—have been subjected to physical and/or sexual intimate partner violence, non-partner sexual violence, or both at least once in their life (30 per cent of women aged 15 and older). This figure does not include sexual harassment. The rates of depression, anxiety disorders, unplanned pregnancies, sexually transmitted infections, and HIV are higher in women who have experienced violence compared to women who have not, as well as many other health problems that can last after the violence has ended."

Facts and figures: Ending violence against women

The availability of data on violence against women and girls has improved considerably in recent years, and data on the prevalence of intimate partner violence (IPV) are now available for at least 161 countries. Please visit our research and data page to better understand how data are crucial to...

www.unwomen.org

"People of all ages, genders, races, and ethnicities are affected by sexual assault. And, sexual violence is unfortunately common among both women and men — over half of women (53%) and nearly one-third of men (29%) report experiencing sexual violence, CDC data shows. On top of that, one-quarter of women and about one in 26 men have experienced completed or attempted rape, according to national data."

2024 Sexual Assault Statistics | Charlie Health

Sexual assault statistics from 2023 reveal how sexual assault, common among young people, LGBTQIA+ people, and people of color, often leads to mental health issues.

www.charliehealth.com

"One in three women will experience physical or sexual violence in her lifetime. Whilst there is no single cause for such violence, some of the strongest and most consistent factors are harmful social norms that contribute to gender inequality.

These norms are based on shared beliefs and expectations about how people should behave. They include male entitlement, domination and control over the bodies of women and girls, and rigid gender roles, as highlighted in an Oxfam’s research from 12 countries across Africa, Latin America and the Caribbean and the Pacific."

Ten harmful beliefs that perpetuate violence against women and girls | Oxfam International

www.oxfam.org

I give you some news. My female friends were never sexual assaulted /raped.
And they are not ugly.

Why do you think it matters if you think your friends are "ugly" or not? What does that have to do with anything? Seriously, did you not even read what I just wrote to you? This is just another talking point from the misogynistic narrative we need to move away from because it's nonsense.

Statistically the percentage of women who have never been raped is high.

I don't believe for a second that you've looked at any statistics.

So, please... do consider that you're not the only woman on Earth. I am speaking of statistics.

I just gave you some statistics, above. I'd love to know what you think about them.

I kindly invite you stop saying things I have never said.

You did say it though. Just in a more roundabout way. And then you said something similar again, in this very post, when you pointed out that you have friends that aren't "ugly" that have never been sexually assaulted/raped. I just don't think you're realizing that you're saying it, but you are. And that's why I'm pointing it out and talking about it.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I have asked people to read Yasmina Pani's article and to comment it. Period.
Yasmina Pani and I agree on what the problem is.

Cool, so just a deflection instead of an actual response.
How disappointing.

 

[Magic Man]

I said that my female friends love to be hit on by cute men...and they wear those clothes to draw their attention.
I have never said anything about clothes and rape.

Here's what you said:

Whenever they go out on Saturday night, my friends wear miniskirt, fishnet stockings and crop top.
If they wore some sloppy T-shirt and sweatpants, no person of male gender would even look at them.
They would ignore them as they ignore a trash bin.

The topic here is women being harassed, assaulted and raped. The implication of your comment there is that women only ever get men's attention when they're dressed up and therefore would not get harassed, assaulted or raped when not dressed up.

In my country hitting on a woman is legal.

Maybe in America hitting on a woman is a federal crime.

Nope, hitting on women is legal in America as it is everywhere. Stop trying to muddy the waters and take your own advice: stop saying others have said things they haven't.

Hitting on women in appropriate situations is perfectly fine (as long as it's respectful and not something like "hey, baby, wanna eff?"). That's not what we're talking about.

 

[Magic Man]

There is a serious problem in the US.
This European man from Slovakia would have been arrested in the US. For harassment.

I'm not going to watch the video because your videos aren't real life. A man would not be arrested for hitting on a woman, as long as that's actually what he's doing.

 

[Estro Felino]

Here's what you said:


The topic here is women being harassed, assaulted and raped. The implication of your comment there is that women only ever get men's attention when they're dressed up and therefore would not get harassed, assaulted or raped when not dressed up.

Dear sir, in Italy, it's already a miracle to find heterosexual and aesthetically passable men...so it's already a miracle being hit on by one of them.
Imagine the odds of being raped.

Nope, hitting on women is legal in America as it is everywhere. Stop trying to muddy the waters and take your own advice: stop saying others have said things they haven't.

I was speaking of hitting on women.

Hitting on women in appropriate situations is perfectly fine (as long as it's respectful and not something like "hey, baby, wanna eff?"). That's not what we're talking about.

Yes, I was talking about that.

 

[Estro Felino]

I'm not going to watch the video because your videos aren't real life. A man would not be arrested for hitting on a woman, as long as that's actually what he's doing.

Some women in that survey stated that they would rather be mauled by a wild bear than being hit on by a random man in the wood.

It's cultural programming.

You should watch that video. Because it shows that we European women are much more refined, elegant, feminine than women from other parts of the world. It's a fact.

 

[Stevicus]

There is a serious problem in the US.
This European man from Slovakia would have been arrested in the US. For harassment.

I think it would have to cross a certain line before one can be arrested for this. It would be different if this was an employer/employee relationship, in which case such behavior could be considered sexual harassment. In that kind of context, it's not considered okay.

In other contexts, it might just seem kind of awkward, like we see here with Greg Brady from The Brady Bunch Movie:

 

[Magic Man]

Dear sir, in Italy, it's already a miracle to find heterosexual and aesthetically passable men...so it's already a miracle being hit on by one of them.
Imagine the odds of being raped.

1) Statistically speaking, this is far, far from a miracle. There are roughly 30 million males in Italy, which means probably in the neighborhood of 15 million men between 20-50, only about 5% of whom would be gay. Obviously it depends on what you find "aesthetically passable", but there must be at least a million. I'm guessing most Italian women get hit on regularly; if not every day, probably at least multiple times a week.

2) That is a completely separate topic from rape and has nothing to do with the odds of being raped. Rape isn't about "hitting on women". It's about power.

I was speaking of hitting on women.

Then stop trying to change the subject (you know, the thing you told me). We're talking about harassment, assault and rape. If you're not using your point to make a point about those things, then leave it alone.

Yes, I was talking about that.

Then stop. We're talking about one thing, and you bring this up as if it relates to what we're talking about. If you only mean it to be about that other thing, then it's irrelevant.

 

[Magic Man]

Some women in that survey stated that they would rather be mauled by a wild bear than being hit on by a random man in the wood.

It's possible, but that's not the majority of women who answered "the bear". And anyone who answered the way you claim was probably kidding or exaggerating to make a point.

It's cultural programming.

No, it's mostly a joke.

You should watch that video. Because it shows that we European women are much more refined, elegant, feminine than women from other parts of the world. It's a fact.

No, thanks. And it doesn't show anything like that, I can guarantee you that.

 

[Estro Felino]

1) Statistically speaking, this is far, far from a miracle. There are roughly 30 million males in Italy, which means probably in the neighborhood of 15 million men between 20-50, only about 5% of whom would be gay. Obviously it depends on what you find "aesthetically passable", but there must be at least a million. I'm guessing most Italian women get hit on regularly; if not every day, probably at least multiple times a week.

2) That is a completely separate topic from rape and has nothing to do with the odds of being raped. Rape isn't about "hitting on women". It's about power.


Then stop trying to change the subject (you know, the thing you told me). We're talking about harassment, assault and rape. If you're not using your point to make a point about those things, then leave it alone.

Then stop. We're talking about one thing, and you bring this up as if it relates to what we're talking about. If you only mean it to be about that other thing, then it's irrelevant.

Some news : this thread is mine.
The topic I chose:
I just presented an article about an Italian linguistics teacher who states that hating men has become fashionable in the US, and since we import the worst idiocies from the US (I am just quoting her article), this sort of misandry is spreading here too.

So she gave the example of the bear-man survey. And I brought up her example to point out that nowadays in the US men are considered more dangerous than bears, even if they just catcall a girl (no physical contact):

 

[SkepticThinker]

Some women in that survey stated that they would rather be mauled by a wild bear than being hit on by a random man in the wood.

It's cultural programming.

You should watch that video. Because it shows that we European women are much more refined, elegant, feminine than women from other parts of the world. It's a fact.

You are perpetuating "cultural programming." Look at the two rape culture talking points you've brought up already.

Yeah but what were you wearing?
Yeah but you're ugly so nobody would want to rape you



These excuses have been used to ignore and dismiss women who have been sexually assaulted/harrassed/raped for most of human history, I'd venture to say.
And then you try to equate sexual harassment with being just being hit on, which again, is dismissive of women's actual experiences with sexual harassment/rape/assault.