Italian writer against women choosing the bear: hating men has become fashionable

[Estro Felino]

Never said any such thing.

That is exactly what #MeToo was about. ALL of that. We are harassed on a daily basis. We have been harmed at some point in our lives. Sounds like you didn't pay any attention to that either.

But please, why don't you continue mansplaining a woman's movement to me.

The solution would be to send all these cocky men to my country.
We really need heterosexual men who find the female body appealing...
so all this harassment on a daily basis would really decrease. Because of lack of men.

I know it sounds unrealistic, but sometimes I think that American men should flee America en masse and find a home and a wife in Europe.

 

[Kfox]

Never said any such thing.

In post #571 you did.

That is exactly what #MeToo was about. ALL of that. We are harassed on a daily basis. We have been harmed at some point in our lives. Sounds like you didn't pay any attention to that either.

Ae you telling me that every single day of your life, you are harassed by a man? If so, is it the same man? Do you know him, or him you? Or are these random strangers. And how are you defining harassment? Is your welfare in danger? or is it just some guy being irritating; give me some details.

But please, why don't you continue mansplaining a woman's movement to me.

Especially in posts like #571, I think you are the only one in this conversation mansplaining here.

 

[Kfox]

It does.

Provide the evidence.

 

[Kfox]

Yes it does.

Evidence?

 

[Magic Man]

No; there is a phenomenon that affects millions of women every day, BUT IT DOESN'T AFFECT THE SAME WOMEN EVERYDAY but you insist that it does; and that is where we have to agree to disagree.

So, you're trying to "win" by playing semantics? It's a phenomenon that affects millions of women. The vast majority of women have loads of these experiences over the course of their lives. In at least most cases, it'll come up almost daily.

But of course all of that is a distraction. You're not interested in listening and discussing it. You're just trying to "win".

 

[Magic Man]

The solution would be to send all these cocky men to my country.

So they can harass the women of your country? I'd bet you have enough men doing that as is.

We really need heterosexual men who find the female body appealing...

There are tens of hundreds of millions of them between America and Europe, and many of them are the problem we're talking about.

so all this harassment on a daily basis would really decrease. Because of lack of men.

I mean, I'd rather just get the men to stop the harassment. Sure, if we ship out all the men to Italy, America would be safe, but Italy wouldn't.

I know it sounds unrealistic, but sometimes I think that American men should flee America en masse and find a home and a wife in Europe.

That doesn't actually solve any problems. If the men don't change, then they're just harassing European women instead of American. Then European women have to deal with their own men who harass them, plus millions of American men harassing them too.

 

[Magic Man]

Evidence?

The question we're talking about, and the women in this thread. This is also where I told you to talk to the women in your life, as they'll confirm it unless they're the extremely biased type like you and Estro here.

 

[SkepticThinker]

In post #571 you did.

Ae you telling me that every single day of your life, you are harassed by a man? If so, is it the same man? Do you know him, or him you? Or are these random strangers. And how are you defining harassment? Is your welfare in danger? or is it just some guy being irritating; give me some details.

On a regular basis, yes. It starts when we're about 14 years old (and often much younger) and just keeps going. I'm 44 years old now now and it still goes on.
Different men. Everywhere. The grocery store. The bus stop. Work. School. You name it.


This isn't about hating men or fearing them so much we can't go outside. Or moving to an island alone (real practical, by the way ). It's about being wary of strange men we encounter, especially in isolated places, based upon our life experience of strange men doing creepy and unwanted things to us.

Some random examples ...

When I was about 8 years old I was about to run across the street to my best friend's house when I guy pulled up next to me in a car and asked me how I was. I froze, and started panicking, because I froze and couldn't move. The guy started leaning across the passenger seat to open the door, and my friend yelled at me to RUN! So I did. Years later I think about how I almost got kidnapped and probably raped and murdered by some strange guy in an old car, right on front of my own house.

When I was in my twenties, I used to go out to bars with my boyfriend and my friends, like a lot of 20 year-olds do. I cannot tell you the number of times a random dude somewhere in the crowd has grabbed some part of my body, some even trying to physically force me to dance with them, thinking that is a perfectly normal way to interact with women they've never met before, AND a woman who is obviously there with her boyfriend, to boot.

My boyfriend and I attended one of those outdoor concert things, where all the bands play outside at various stages and there are huge crowds of people everywhere. We were trying to make our way out of the crowd to find the washrooms, when I got slightly separated from my boyfriend and was struggling to get back to him. Some random guy just grabbed me and pulled me against his body and wouldn't let go. My boyfriend had to literally pry me from this guy's arms. Oh, and on the way home on the GO train, it was so crowded that we all had to just stand up and hold onto something. There was a guy standing directly behind me who was clearly and obviously rubbing his genital area all over the back of me (and grossly, I could feel that he was definitely enjoying it) and there was absolutely nothing I could do. I couldn't just move away - it was far too crowded. My boyfriend said something to him but the guy pretended like he couldn't hear him. Nobody else in the crowd offered any help or anything.

Three years ago I was working in an office and there was an older man there that was really touchy feely and wanted to hug me all the time. I just thought, well, he's European and they do stuff like that so no big deal, right? Then his hugs start getting longer, and then he starts trying to kiss me on the mouth and holding onto the hug so I can't get out of it. I tell him that's enough, no more hugging, it makes me uncomfortable. I try staying away from him whenever I see him so he won't hug me. Not the easiest thing since I was supposed to be there to cater to the agents work needs, and he was one of those agents. He continues trying anyway, despite my protestations. So I decide to tell my boss what is going on. I tell him this guy won't stop trying to hug and kiss me and it's making me uncomfortable, please say something to him to let him know it's not okay. Guess what my boss said to me. ... He said, "Can I get some too?"

When I was about 15 years old, my boyfriend's father used to try to corner me when alone and grab various parts of my body as though they belonged to him. He also used to film all of us girls when we were swimming in our bathing suits. He'd also try to "tickle" all of us all the time. He'd have his friends over and they'd all make comments about my body that I guess I was supposed to find complimentary but I just thought were creepy and gross. When I told my boyfriend about what his father was doing to me and begged him not to leave me alone with his father ever again, guess what he said to me. He said I was making too much out of it and this was just normal "man" behaviour.

If this is what men are willing to do in public, imagine what they're willing to do in more isolated places.


One time when I was about 15 years old, I was staying at my older cousin's apartment in Toronto. He had some friends over with loud music playing, but I was tired so I went to bed, in his room, by myself. My female cousin was supposed to join me later on, she wanted to stay up a little longer. I woke up in the night to some guy I'd sort-of met earlier in the night, coming into the room and climbing into the bed next to me. I'm not going to go into detail on the rest, but needless to say, I had a difficult time getting out of there and I had to take some drastic measures.

When I was 13 years old, I was raped by my friend's brother (whom I'd never even met before) while I was at her house, waiting for her to return from dance class.



Chalk those up to "some guy being irritating" if you want. I don't really care at this point.
I could go on and on and on and on ...

Especially in posts like #571, I think you are the only one in this conversation mansplaining here.

I'm a woman, so I can't be mansplaining. But thanks for trying to mansplain that too.

This is my last post to you. I'm going to let @Magic Man speak for me now. He gets it.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The solution would be to send all these cocky men to my country.
We really need heterosexual men who find the female body appealing...
so all this harassment on a daily basis would really decrease. Because of lack of men.

I know it sounds unrealistic, but sometimes I think that American men should flee America en masse and find a home and a wife in Europe.

I'm not American.

Do Italian women enjoy sexual harrassment?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Evidence?

You caught us! The two of us are just making it up.

Please tell me again how much you listen to women.

 

[Estro Felino]

I'm not American.

Do Italian women enjoy sexual harrassment?

It depends on what you mean by sexual harassment.

According to the mainstream feminist ideology overseas (Canada included) sexual harassment includes catcalling, random compliments on the street, and similar.

So...I guess they are kinda ok with that.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It depends on what you mean by sexual harassment.

According to the mainstream feminist ideology overseas (Canada included) sexual harassment includes catcalling, random compliments on the street, and similar.

So...I guess they are kinda ok with that.

I gave some examples in post #588.

Please don't try to tell me what Canadian feminists think about stuff.

 

[Estro Felino]

I gave some examples in post #588.

Please don't try to tell me what Canadian feminists think about stuff.

It's saddening to hear your story, and you're right about some men (statistically few) that made you live those traumatizing experiences.

But mainstream feminism has gone too far: the slightest contact with men is considered sexual.
Like in this case, with Ben Affleck.
Nothing bad happened. He didn't do it on purpose.

And by the way...any heterosexual woman here in my country would do anything to be touched by Ben Affleck....for the record.

 

[Magic Man]

It depends on what you mean by sexual harassment.

According to the mainstream feminist ideology overseas (Canada included) sexual harassment includes catcalling, random compliments on the street, and similar.

So...I guess they are kinda ok with that.

Yes, those things are considered sexual harassment. I highly doubt many Italian women are OK with them. This isn't an American thing.

 

[Magic Man]

It's saddening to hear your story, and you're right about some men (statistically few) that made you live those traumatizing experiences.

No, statistically not few.

But mainstream feminism has gone too far: the slightest contact with men is considered sexual.
Like in this case, with Ben Affleck.
Nothing bad happened. He didn't do it on purpose.

No, the slightest contact with men is not considered sexual. Any unwanted contact by men on women is considered sexual harassment.

"Nothing bad happened." Yes, it did. She told you what happened. You assume he didn't do it on purpose based on...what? Even if he didn't, it's still wrong.

And by the way...any heterosexual woman here in my country would do anything to be touched by Ben Affleck....for the record.

No, they would not. You have a very skewed idea about these things, and you project, thinking a lot of other women agree with you. The majority (probably the vast majority) do not.

Yes, a lot of women find Affleck attractive. A lot of women would like to go out with him and/or engage with him physically. But that doesn't mean they would be OK with him just assaulting them like that. And that's even the ones who find him attractive.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It's saddening to hear your story, and you're right about some men (statistically few) that made you live those traumatizing experiences.

But mainstream feminism has gone too far: the slightest contact with men is considered sexual.
Like in this case, with Ben Affleck.
Nothing bad happened. He didn't do it on purpose.

And by the way...any heterosexual woman here in my country would do anything to be touched by Ben Affleck....for the record.

I don't care how hot or famous the dude is, don't touch me without my consent. Thank you.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Interesting. What about this stance?:
Since I am not a lesbian, if a woman dares touch me, I will beat her up, because being touched by another woman makes me sick.

Do you approve of this?

How about nobody touches anybody without first getting their consent? Especially groping. Can we do that please?
Thanks.

 

[Magic Man]

Interesting. What about this stance?:
Since I am not a lesbian, if a woman dares touch me, I will beat her up, because being touched by another woman makes me sick.

Do you approve of this?

It's interesting how your side always has to exaggerate into strawmen.

Leaving aside the "not a lesbian" part, if someone gives you unwanted touches, that person is wrong. The "dares", "beat up" and "makes me sick" are your additions to try to make the position sound ridiculous.

 

[Estro Felino]

How about nobody touches anybody without first getting their consent? Especially groping. Can we do that please?
Thanks.

I totally agree with you.


But there is too much doublestandardism, meaning that if a woman hugs a man or a woman without his/her consent, she is not called a sexual harasser.

 

[Estro Felino]

It's interesting how your side always has to exaggerate into strawmen.

Leaving aside the "not a lesbian" part, if someone gives you unwanted touches, that person is wrong. The "dares", "beat up" and "makes me sick" are your additions to try to make the position sound ridiculous.

It was to make you guys see the double standards applied: whenever a woman hugs someone without their consent, she is not called a harasser.