Italian writer against women choosing the bear: hating men has become fashionable

[Kfox]

I don't think you live on an island by yourself. You're just oblivious to what women deal with. I was too for a long time. You don't experience it, and it's not shoved in your face, so you don't know it exists. That's the point of this exercise, to point out how prevalent this really is, despite the fact that a lot of men don't know it.

Also, the idea of "kicking ***" is another typical "macho man" response. First, this is happening. I guarantee the women in your life would attest to it. So, by your own admission, you should be out "kicking ***". But that's an unhelpful response. It's meant more to make you feel better than to address the situation. "Kicking ***" isn't going to help this. Sure, in certain rare situation, that might happen.

But the main thing you can do is actually listen to women. Acknowledge what they tell you. Instead of arguing back, telling them they're bigots and making stuff up, accept what they're saying. That would go a whole lot further than "kicking ***". It's not a solution, but it can help lead to one.

You are not listening. All the information I have concerning what women deal with is based on what I see, and what they tell me. Perhaps it's were I live vs where you live; I live in Western USA, perhaps it's not as bad here as where you live. Perhaps this is just something we will have to agree to disagree on

 

[Magic Man]

You are not listening. All the information I have concerning what women deal with is based on what I see, and what they tell me. Perhaps it's were I live vs where you live; I live in Western USA, perhaps it's not as bad here as where you live. Perhaps this is just something we will have to agree to disagree on

I'm listening. You're not. What you see is not helpful, considering you're here actively turning a blind eye to what women are saying.

This isn't a regional thing. It's everywhere. Ask the women you know and see what they say. I bet you'll be surprised. There really isn't anything to disagree on here.

 

[Kfox]

I'm listening. You're not. What you see is not helpful,

Actually it is, because it confirms what they tell me.

considering you're here actively turning a blind eye to what women are saying.

Now you are just being absurd.

This isn't a regional thing. It's everywhere. Ask the women you know and see what they say. I bet you'll be surprised.

More absurdity. If you were actually listening to what I've been saying, you would not have asked me to do that.

 

[Magic Man]

Actually it is, because it confirms what they tell me.

They're telling you right here, and you're dismissing it.

Now you are just being absurd.

Nope. You have women right here explaining it to you, and you're doing everything you can to dismiss them. That's turning a blind eye to it.

More absurdity. If you were actually listening to what I've been saying, you would not have asked me to do that.

More absurdity. If you were actually listening to what I've been saying, you wouldn't keep saying the things you do. You can choose not to ask the women in your life, but that's on you. You clearly are very opposed to seeing this situation as it is, so it would make sense.

 

[Kfox]

They're telling you right here, and you're dismissing it.

I'm dismissing it? No; you're dismissing it. The woman who started this thread disagrees with you and provided a video of a woman who disagrees with you, explaining why you are wrong. And instead of listening to the women here are saying, you ignore what they tell you and continue with your own agenda. You need to listen to what the women are telling you, acknowledge what they say and learn from it; that's the best thing you can do for right now.

 

[Magic Man]

I'm dismissing it? No; you're dismissing it. The woman who started this thread disagrees with you and provided a video of a woman who disagrees with you, explaining why you are wrong. And instead of listening to the women here are saying, you ignore what they tell you and continue with your own agenda. You need to listen to what the women are telling you, acknowledge what they say and learn from it; that's the best thing you can do for right now.

This wasn't even a nice try.

Look, women were asked whether they'd choose a bear or a strange man. A lot of them chose the bear. For a reason. Women here are telling you that, and women elsewhere are saying it. Women have these experiences all the time. You'd know if you opened up and listened. The woman who started this thread also believes in an "elite cabal of warmongers" who controls the White House (presumably only when it's a democrat) and wishes Putin would invade her country too. She also titled it "hating men has become fashionable". I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in what she has to say on this matter.

You're here telling women they're bigots for being wary of strange men due to the vast number of bad experiences they've had with them.

You can play the "nuh uh" game, or you can actually listen to the women giving you their experience. So far you've chosen the former. Maybe at some point you'll choose the latter.

 

[Kfox]

This wasn't even a nice try.

Look, women were asked whether they'd choose a bear or a strange man. A lot of them chose the bear.

Are you gonna claim they represent the majority of women? how many were asked?

For a reason. Women here are telling you that, and women elsewhere are saying it.

You need to quit pretending this is an actual survey. Second, I have far more women telling me that you are wrong, and I am right.

Women have these experiences all the time. You'd know if you opened up and listened.

Your own description of the offense includes men looking at women, and men asking a woman out. Does that happen all the time? Yes! Is there anything wrong with that? No.

The woman who started this thread also believes in an "elite cabal of warmongers" who controls the White House (presumably only when it's a democrat) and wishes Putin would invade her country too. She also titled it "hating men has become fashionable". I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in what she has to say on this matter.

As bad as that sounds? the women you listen to are even worse!

 

[Magic Man]

Are you gonna claim they represent the majority of women? how many were asked?

I'm pretty sure you understand this is irrelevant.

You need to quit pretending this is an actual survey. Second, I have far more women telling me that you are wrong, and I am right.

No one is pretending it's an actual survey. If you have women telling you you're right, I'd talk to different women. I mean, there are a lot of women voting for the GOP here in America.

Your own description of the offense includes men looking at women, and men asking a woman out. Does that happen all the time? Yes! Is there anything wrong with that? No.

Ah, and here we are. Yes, there is something wrong with men looking at women and men asking women out. This is why you're part of the problem.

As bad as that sounds? the women you listen to are even worse!

Nope. The women I'm talking to don't buy into conspiracy theories and anything their thought leaders tell them to that supports the narrative they like. It's like the difference between listening to RFK Jr. and a rational human being.

Look, the bottom line remains:

Women deal with a lot of bad behavior toward them by men, on an almost daily basis. They often endure it even at young ages like 9-12 years old. They learn over time how gross and creepy men can be toward them and how angry and dangerous men can get. They become very wary of them based on this plethora of data.

That is what this question highlights. Obviously you'd expect every woman to answer "a man", because it seems obvious that men are less dangerous in that situation. And yet, a lot of women choose the bear. That doesn't mean they're running down a checklist and figuring out the various probabilities and exactly which one is the best given all the variables and data. It means they don't automatically choose the man like you'd expect.

What that tells people who actually listen is that the phenomenon I just laid out is much more pervasive than most men realize. Men who can take in new information and adjust their worldview accordingly accept that. Men who cannot handle new information and have an extreme bias and desire to uphold conservative narratives push back, call the women bigots and twist things every which way in a desperate attempt to maintain their inaccurate worldview. Sadly, as this thread points out, some women join in this too.

 

[Kfox]

I'm pretty sure you understand this is irrelevant.

No it's not irrevelant. The way you phrase it, it gives the impression a majority of women are offended by men on a daily basis.

No one is pretending it's an actual survey.

the way you're defending it, kinda sounds like you are.

If you have women telling you you're right, I'd talk to different women.

Perhaps you should talk to different women

I mean, there are a lot of women voting for the GOP here in America.

We got some voting for democrats too!

Look, the bottom line remains:

Women deal with a lot of bad behavior toward them by men, on an almost daily basis.

What evidence do you have that a significant percentage of women deal with bad behavior from men on a daily basis? Present the evidence, otherwise your claim will continue to be dismissed.

They often endure it even at young ages like 9-12 years old. They learn over time how gross and creepy men can be toward them and how angry and dangerous men can get. They become very wary of them based on this plethora of data.

Then present the data! Just because you say it, doesn't make it true.

 

[Magic Man]

No it's not irrevelant. The way you phrase it, it gives the impression a majority of women are offended by men on a daily basis.

At least phrase and address things correctly. You brought up the number of women who chose the bear. That's what this was talking about, not the number of women who deal with bad behavior by men on a daily basis.

the way you're defending it, kinda sounds like you are.

Nope. Keep trying.

Perhaps you should talk to different women

I've talked to a lot. I've also listened to a lot, which is the key. There are a lot of women who vote for Trump. The women who started this thread works against women. Listen to the women who aren't that far gone, so you can get the real picture.

We got some voting for democrats too!

Yes, thankfully. They're not the best, but they're a decent option and light years better than republicans right now.

What evidence do you have that a significant percentage of women deal with bad behavior from men on a daily basis? Present the evidence, otherwise your claim will continue to be dismissed.

Then present the data! Just because you say it, doesn't make it true.

And here we go. This says it all. You refuse to accept that this phenomenon exists. Again, that's the whole point of this question, to show just how pervasive this kind of thing is and how bad.

All this time, and you're now choosing to explicitly deny that this happens. You could have done this a long time ago and saved everyone the hassle.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You seem to be under the impression I live on an island by myself, with no contact with women in my life and I judge female experiences based on my own. You couldn't be further from the truth. I have a wife, sisters, nieces, friends, coworkers, who are women and if there is one thing women do is they talk when they are upset. If my wife and the many women in my life were dealing with half the stuff you say women deal with on a daily basis, I would be all over the guy with the creepy/rapey behavior; and it's not just me, but countless other guys I know. I and countless other guys I know would be kickin' **** every day if the women in our lives were harassed the way you say they are. That's why I say you are exaggerating, because what they tell me is far different than what you are telling me.

They are. You should listen more closely.
I've been telling you for pages and pages now.

Edit: This is what #MeToo was about. We tried telling you.

 

[Revoltingest]

They are. You should listen more closely.
I've been telling you for pages and pages now.

This thread is a train wreck.

 

[Kfox]

And here we go. This says it all. You refuse to accept that this phenomenon exists.

No; I refuse to accept it exists to the extent you claim it does

All this time, and you're now choosing to explicitly deny that this happens.

No; I deny it happens to the extent you say it does.

You could have done this a long time ago and saved everyone the hassle.

I did say this a long time ago; weren’t you listening?

 

[Kfox]

They are. You should listen more closely.

So now you know better than I know the personal conversations I have with other people? Now you're really being absurd!

I've been telling you for pages and pages now.

Edit: This is what #MeToo was about. We tried telling you.

#MeToo is not about women who are harassed and harmed on a daily basis, it's about women who have been harassed and harmed at some point in their lives.

 

[Stevicus]

 

[Magic Man]

No; I refuse to accept it exists to the extent you claim it does

No; I deny it happens to the extent you say it does.

Yes, this is obvious. So to sum up:

There is a phenomenon that is widespread and affects millions of women every day. They are telling you about it. There is a thought experiment that is showing you that it exists. But you choose to stick your fingers in your ears and deny it exists.

I did say this a long time ago; weren’t you listening?

No, you even said there are so many examples of men behaving badly that we don't need another thing to show it to us. You engaged as if you weren't flat out denying this obvious phenomenon exists.

Anyway, sadly there are a lot of men (and even women, as evidenced by this thread) who are in your camp in just refusing to acknowledge the realty of the situation. Hopefully, over time and more public discussions like this, more and more people will come to terms with the reality that exists.

 

[Kfox]

Yes, this is obvious. So to sum up:

There is a phenomenon that is widespread and affects millions of women every day. They are telling you about it. There is a thought experiment that is showing you that it exists. But you choose to stick your fingers in your ears and deny it exists.

No; there is a phenomenon that affects millions of women every day, BUT IT DOESN'T AFFECT THE SAME WOMEN EVERYDAY but you insist that it does; and that is where we have to agree to disagree.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So now you know better than I know the personal conversations I have with other people? Now you're really being absurd!

Never said any such thing.

#MeToo is not about women who are harassed and harmed on a daily basis, it's about women who have been harassed and harmed at some point in their lives.

That is exactly what #MeToo was about. ALL of that. We are harassed on a daily basis. We have been harmed at some point in our lives. Sounds like you didn't pay any attention to that either.

But please, why don't you continue mansplaining a woman's movement to me.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No; there is a phenomenon that affects millions of women every day, BUT IT DOESN'T AFFECT THE SAME WOMEN EVERYDAY but you insist that it does; and that is where we have to agree to disagree.

It does.

 

[LadyJane]

It does.

Yes it does.