Italian writer against women choosing the bear: hating men has become fashionable

[Magic Man]

This thread is about a woman who says there is a new wave of feminism where it has become fashionable to hate men, and she uses the “women choosing the bear” absurdity as an example of this female bigotry. If I recall correctly, she even has a name for this type of bigotry; though not "womansplaining, I'm sure it's something you would find just as objectionable.
This is what this thread is about! Go back and read the Original Post. I know you wanna make it about something else, but it ain’t.

So, again, to recap:

This thread is about the question about the bear. There was an assertion that women choosing the bear are bigoted.

And then you claimed women are bigoted for choosing the bear.

Soooooo...it's exactly what I said. It's a thread about the question regarding the bear. I don't want to make it about anything else. I'm addressing the actual topic. It's frankly a little weird that you're trying to make the argument "This thread isn't about women choosing the bear; it's about women choosing the bear! Duh! Don't try to change the subject!"

So, we're back to the fact that women choose the bear because they're wary of strange men due to their many, many, many negative interactions with them.

If you're just going to desperately try to disagree by either claiming the thread is about the exact thing I'm claiming the thread is about, or picking out a nit you think you can pick successfully, maybe don't waste our time anymore.

 

[Kfox]

So, again, to recap:

This thread is about the question about the bear. There was an assertion that women choosing the bear are bigoted.

Not quite. This thread is about hatred of men being fashionable, and the question about the bear is an example of this hatred being fashionable.

And then you claimed women are bigoted for choosing the bear.

No, I agreed with the lady who said the hatred is fashionable, and I disagreed with you when you insisted women from age 10-12 experience bad behavior from men nearly every day of their lives.

Soooooo...it's exactly what I said. It's a thread about the question regarding the bear. I don't want to make it about anything else. I'm addressing the actual topic. It's frankly a little weird that you're trying to make the argument "This thread isn't about women choosing the bear; it's about women choosing the bear! Duh! Don't try to change the subject!"

So, we're back to the fact that women choose the bear because they're wary of strange men due to their many, many, many negative interactions with them.

I know you keep trying to make this about the bear, but it’s not. My objection is about your claim of what women have to go through nearly every day of their lives; quit trying to make this about the bear.

 

[Magic Man]

Not quite. This thread is about hatred of men being fashionable, and the question about the bear is an example of this hatred being fashionable.

Uh, yeah. Women chose the bear, so the OP takes that to mean women hate men. So, then we point out how wrong that is by pointing out why they actually chose the bear. And you now acknowledge that our explanation is correct.

No, I agreed with the lady who said the hatred is fashionable, and I disagreed with you when you insisted women from age 10-12 experience bad behavior from men nearly every day of their lives.

Exactly. And now you changed your tune and are agreeing with us, except you can't actually do that, so you're nitpicking a particular term in order to still try to argue with us and "prove us wrong".

I know you keep trying to make this about the bear, but it’s not. My objection is about your claim of what women have to go through nearly every day of their lives; quit trying to make this about the bear.

Let's recap. From just a few lines above quoted from you:

This thread is about hatred of men being fashionable, and the question about the bear is an example of this hatred being fashionable.

So, this is about the bear, but it's not about the bear. I mean, yeah, obviously that makes perfect sense.

So, yeah, this thread was started to make the claim that women choosing the bear just hate men. That means the thread is about why women are choosing the bear.

Then some of us pointed out that it's not because they hate men; it's because they're very wary of men due to the huge number of bad experiences they've had with them. As you point out, you started by agreeing with the OP and arguing against us because you thought it meant that women hate men. Now, you acknowledge that it's because of all those bad experiences women have with men. BUT you can't just do that. You then quibble about exactly how many of those experiences women have, because you can't just agree with us fully.

 

[Kfox]

Uh, yeah. Women chose the bear, so the OP takes that to mean women hate men.

The OP says hating men is fashionable, and uses the bear as an EXAMPLE of this.

So, then we point out how wrong that is by pointing out why they actually chose the bear. And you now acknowledge that our explanation is correct.

No. Just because I acknowledge there are cases when men behave badly doesn't mean I am agreeing with your explanation which goes waaaay beyond behaving badly.

Exactly. And now you changed your tune and are agreeing with us, except you can't actually do that, so you're nitpicking a particular term in order to still try to argue with us and "prove us wrong".

I have consistently expressed my disagreement, and you have consistently ignored it and kept trying to make this about the bear.

Let's recap. From just a few lines above quoted from you:

This thread is about hatred of men being fashionable, and the question about the bear is an example of this hatred being fashionable.

So, this is about the bear, but it's not about the bear. I mean, yeah, obviously that makes perfect sense.

No it's not about the bear, the bear is an example, they could have listed countless examples.

So, yeah, this thread was started to make the claim that women choosing the bear just hate men. That means the thread is about why women are choosing the bear.

Again trying to make it about the example when it is not.

Then some of us pointed out that it's not because they hate men; it's because they're very wary of men due to the huge number of bad experiences they've had with them.

If that's all you said, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. How come you refuse to list the other stuff you said that I actually objected over?

 

[Magic Man]

The OP says hating men is fashionable, and uses the bear as an EXAMPLE of this.

No. Just because I acknowledge there are cases when men behave badly doesn't mean I am agreeing with your explanation which goes waaaay beyond behaving badly.

I have consistently expressed my disagreement, and you have consistently ignored it and kept trying to make this about the bear.

No it's not about the bear, the bear is an example, they could have listed countless examples.

Again trying to make it about the example when it is not.

If that's all you said, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. How come you refuse to list the other stuff you said that I actually objected over?

Let's recap again.

Me: The entire point of the question is that women are so wary of men because of all those bad experiences they have with them.
You: I never said they weren't.

Yet here you are saying they weren't.

This is about the bear question. It's frankly really weird that you keep twisting in knots to try to make it not about that, while also pointing out that the very OP is the one who brought up the bear question. They could have listed countless examples but didn't, because it's about this example. This is the topic, whether you want it to be or not.

And that is all I said. All we've said is that women are very wary of men due to the huge number of those negative interactions with men. You tried to argue against that for a long, long time, and then finally admitted it's true just a little while ago. Then you decided that you can't just let it go, so you have to keep arguing a nitpick.

The bottom line remains the same. Women chose the bear because of all those negative interactions with men. It's not fashionable to hate men, and this answer to this question doesn't show women hating men.

 

[Kfox]

All we've said is that women are very wary of men due to the huge number of those negative interactions with men.

You also said beginning age 10-12 each woman will have these negative interactions with men nearly every day of their lives. THAT is what I objected to.

 

[Magic Man]

You also said beginning age 10-12 each woman will have these negative interactions with men nearly every day of their lives. THAT is what I objected to.

That's close enough to what I said. You're welcome to object, but you'll be wrong.

And that only reinforces the point I've been making. You stopped objecting to the actual point and started agreeing with us. But instead of just leaving it at that, you're trying to nitpick to still have something to try to call us out on.

 

[Kfox]

That's close enough to what I said. You're welcome to object, but you'll be wrong.

And that only reinforces the point I've been making. You stopped objecting to the actual point and started agreeing with us. But instead of just leaving it at that, you're trying to nitpick to still have something to try to call us out on.

What other point did I object to?

 

[Magic Man]

What other point did I object to?

You originally said women who choose the bear are bigoted against men, rather than just being wary of men due to all the negative interactions. In the course of explaining that idea, we talked about when those experiences start for women (often around 10-12) and how often they occur. Recently you stopped arguing that women who choose the bear are bigoted, and instead agreed that they are wary of men due to those negative interactions. You just switched to focusing on the exact age and number of experiences they have.

 

[Kfox]

You originally said women who choose the bear are bigoted against men,

I believe they are

rather than just being wary of men due to all the negative interactions.

I don’t believe any of those women would choose the bear in real life, they’re just saying they would knowing they would never have to make that choice

In the course of explaining that idea, we talked about when those experiences start for women (often around 10-12) and how often they occur.

Yes; occurring every day is what I disagree with.

Recently you stopped arguing that women who choose the bear are bigoted, and instead agreed that they are wary of men due to those negative interactions.

Perhaps you misunderstood me. I didn’t say those bigoted women are weary of men due to negative interactions, I said some women are wary of men due to their interactions; but I never suggested this would cause them to choose the bear over a man

 

[Magic Man]

I believe they are

Then you're wrong, and you're now flip-flopping. You agreed that women choose the bear because they're wary of men due to all the negative interactions they have with them. Now, you're going back on that.

I don’t believe any of those women would choose the bear in real life, they’re just saying they would knowing they would never have to make that choice

Yet again, you're not listening and missing the point.

Yes; occurring every day is what I disagree with.

Congrats.

Perhaps you misunderstood me. I didn’t say those bigoted women are weary of men due to negative interactions, I said some women are wary of men due to their interactions; but I never suggested this would cause them to choose the bear over a man

No, I didn't misunderstand. You're just flip-flopping.

So, we're back to:

Women are not bigoted against men and don't hate them. They're justifiably wary of them due to the constant negative experiences they have with them where men behave creepily.

 

[Kfox]

Then you're wrong, and you're now flip-flopping. You agreed that women choose the bear because they're wary of men due to all the negative interactions they have with them.

I never agreed to that.

So, we're back to:

Women are not bigoted against men and don't hate them. They're justifiably wary of them due to the constant negative experiences they have with them where men behave creepily.

No; you're back to that. I'm where I've always been, some women are wary of men due to bad experiences, but most are not. For those who are wary, they still would not choose the bear, but some may say they would due to bigotry.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don’t believe any of those women would choose the bear in real life, they’re just saying they would knowing they would never have to make that choice

My vast experience trying to communicate with people
eventually resulted in this observation....
They say things to express how they feel, rather than
making a factual statement. Can't take them literally.

 

[Magic Man]

I never agreed to that.

You did, but I'm not surprised you're going back on it now. It was a big change from what you had been saying all along.

No; you're back to that. I'm where I've always been, some women are wary of men due to bad experiences, but most are not. For those who are wary, they still would not choose the bear, but some may say they would due to bigotry.

This is a lot of different stuff here.

1) Most women are wary of men due to the bad experiences we've talked about. The level of wariness just varies.

2) Those who are very wary do choose the bear. We've seen that. The whole point is them choosing that way because of that wariness.

3) As I've said many, many times now, they choose the bear due to that wariness, not due to bigotry. Remember that part about you not listening? This could all have been cleared up 30 pages ago, if you'd just do that one simple thing.

 

[Kfox]

You did, but I'm not surprised you're going back on it now. It was a big change from what you had been saying all along.

Provide the post number when I said something different.

This is a lot of different stuff here.

1) Most women are wary of men due to the bad experiences we've talked about. The level of wariness just varies.

I don't agree "most" women; that's your view not mine

2) Those who are very wary do choose the bear. We've seen that.

We've only seen them claim that.

3) As I've said many, many times now, they choose the bear due to that wariness, not due to bigotry. Remember that part about you not listening? This could all have been cleared up 30 pages ago, if you'd just do that one simple thing.

You need to quit equating listening with agreeing.

 

[Magic Man]

Provide the post number when I said something different.

Post 749:

I never said they weren't

I am not arguing that; the fact that you think that I am proves you are the one not listening.

In response to: Remember when you claimed you're listening, just disagreeing? Yeah, this is more evidence you're not listening. The entire point of the question is that women are so wary of men because of all those bad experiences they have with them.

And:

The fact that you still haven't grasped that basic aspect of the very topic you're trying to argue about is problematic.

I don't agree "most" women; that's your view not mine

Yes, that's my factual claim, not yours.

We've only seen them claim that.

Which is all that's necessary, since that's the whole point. Women choose the bear because they're wary of men due to so many bad experiences with them. You'll have a huge hill to climb to get in their heads and provide proof that they're lying and actually feel differently. So, start climbing.

You need to quit equating listening with agreeing.

You need to start listening and stop trying to win arguments. Not that that's going to happen. You've proven over and over and over again that you're not interested in listening. You decided long ago that women are bigoted against men, and nothing can budge you from that ridiculous claim.

 

[Kfox]

Post 749:


In response to: Remember when you claimed you're listening, just disagreeing? Yeah, this is more evidence you're not listening. The entire point of the question is that women are so wary of men because of all those bad experiences they have with them.

And:

The fact that you still haven't grasped that basic aspect of the very topic you're trying to argue about is problematic.

On post #749 I agreed some women are wary of men. But I didn't say because they are wary of men, they are choosing the bear.

Yes, that's my factual claim, not yours.

If it were a factual claim, you should be able to provide the facts; which you cannot.

Which is all that's necessary, since that's the whole point. Women choose the bear because they're wary of men due to so many bad experiences with them. You'll have a huge hill to climb to get in their heads and provide proof that they're lying and actually feel differently. So, start climbing.

First of all, only a small, micro-percentage of women were spewing this bear nonsense, so if you gonna try to imply this applies to most, or even a significant percentage of women, you have a huge hill to climb to make that case; so start climbing.

 

[Magic Man]

On post #749 I agreed some women are wary of men. But I didn't say because they are wary of men, they are choosing the bear.

If it were a factual claim, you should be able to provide the facts; which you cannot.

First of all, only a small, micro-percentage of women were spewing this bear nonsense, so if you gonna try to imply this applies to most, or even a significant percentage of women, you have a huge hill to climb to make that case; so start climbing.

So, we're back to the fact that women choose the bear because they're wary of strange men due to their many, many, many negative interactions with them. They aren't bigoted and don't hate men.

The actual answer to the question is the evidence you're looking for. That's the whole point.

All you have to do is actually listen. You could stop wasting your time and mine, and in the process educate yourself. I know you won't, and instead you'll continue this desperate attempt to argue against reality.

 

[Kfox]

So, we're back to the fact that women choose the bear because they're wary of strange men due to their many, many, many negative interactions with them.

You accurately quoted me saying one thing, and you reply as if I said something completely different. Go back and read what I wrote again.

 

[Magic Man]

You accurately quoted me saying one thing, and you reply as if I said something completely different. Go back and read what I wrote again.

So, we're back to the fact that women choose the bear because they're wary of strange men due to their many, many, many negative interactions with them. They aren't bigoted and don't hate men.

The actual answer to the question is the evidence you're looking for. That's the whole point.

All you have to do is actually listen. You could stop wasting your time and mine, and in the process educate yourself. I know you won't, and instead you'll continue this desperate attempt to argue against reality.