It's All About That Faith, Bout That Faith

[fantome profane]

You asked how I know all Scripture is inspired. I know because God said it in 2 Timothy 3:16. I choose to believe all of the Scriptures. I don't pick and choose which ones to believe and which to toss. I accept all.

So how do you determine what is and what does not qualify as "scripture"? Is the Quran scripture? Is the Book of Mormon scripture? Is the Book of Urantia scripture? Or the Tao Te Ching? Or the Dhammapada? All of these are considered scripture by someone, and I could list dozens of others. How do you determine which of these things the 2 Timothy is referring to? Or do you choose to believe them all?

 

[Midnight Rain]

Hate to sound like a broken record, but it is your choice. That is the point of the thread.

Then what are we debating?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I have no way of knowing what group you belong to. I don't know you.

Fair enough. I belong to various groupings, I guess, but in this particular case I was referring to my atheism.

I was referring to the following:
Romans 1:20
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Yep. You look at the stars and see evidence of your God, I suppose. I see evidence to the contrary, in some ways. A Muslim sees evidence of his God. Some other folks see the stars themselves as Gods. An interesting study in human belief, perhaps.

Sorry, I don't know anything about the term deist. Can't comment.

Okay.
I'll probably hash this up a little, but in the simplest/most generic possible terms, Deism is the rejection of religion, but the belief that the universe was created by a single Creator.
In other words, one could agree with the sentiment of Romans 1:20, but reject the Bible.

Some Deists you may be aware of for example;
- Thomas Jefferson
- Voltaire
- Thomas Paine
- Victor Hugo
- Mark Twain
- Dmitri Mendeleev
- Adam Smith

 

[Draka]

Yes a person can choose to like broccoli. It's called acquiring a taste for something. I learned to like sushi once I got past the idea that it was raw fish. It's no different with the Bible. A person can learn to accept it.

I have a friend who was like you. He was very smart and reasoned everything out. He was all about logic. Best trivia player I ever knew, btw. His wife came to church faithfully, and then one day, he decided to come too. He wanted to understand what it was his wife had that he was missing. She always seemed like such a happy and content person. Nothing ever got her down. He couldn't understand why she kept going week after week, three times a week. So he decided to give it a try. Then one day he too made a decision to follow Jesus. He's been following Him faithfully ever since and that was about 35 years ago.

Paul wrote that the message of the cross seems foolish to some, and that God would destroy the wisdom of the wise and make it foolish. That's in 1 Cor. 1:18-2.

I pray my God blesses you in every way Draka.

Katie

I have to disagree with you. Deciding to entertain a notion to see if it resonates with you is not the same thing as just choosing to believe. I was raised learning Christianity, my mother's side of the family is quite Catholic actually. No one could say I didn't give it a fair shake. However, I had my own experiences, my own ideas, that just didn't mesh with it. Made it impossible for that belief structure to exist for me. I had found something else that was "truth" for me and Christianity, by comparison, was false, lies, made up. It just cannot be. I cannot simply "learn to accept" that which I find myself allergic to. And that is about what it is. It so repels me, I find it so counter to what I have experienced and know for myself, that it would be like being deathly allergic to peanuts and forcing myself to eat a huge jar of Jif.

 

[turk179]

I disagree, I had faith, was losing it and sought it strongly. I lost it unwillingly and would have chosen it back if I could. I call myself an unwilling agnostic because i can't just choose to believe something.

I could write the same thing Drolefille said but it would be pointless. She said it good enough. I lost faith. Didn't want to. Telling yourself you like something or have faith in something when you really don't anymore is just lying to yourself.

 

[Cephus]

I could write the same thing Drolefille said but it would be pointless. She said it good enough. I lost faith. Didn't want to. Telling yourself you like something or have faith in something when you really don't anymore is just lying to yourself.

Virtually all ex-theists "lost faith" when they become convinced that what is actually true is more important than what is mere ego stroking. I was one of the most faithful people around until I discovered that my faith didn't jive with what was demonstrably true in the real world. The real world won out. Faith is a poor substitute.

 

[Drolefille]

Virtually all ex-theists "lost faith" when they become convinced that what is actually true is more important than what is mere ego stroking. I was one of the most faithful people around until I discovered that my faith didn't jive with what was demonstrably true in the real world. The real world won out. Faith is a poor substitute.

Sure, what I think is important to distinguish here is that I want faith. If I could choose to believe I would. I just can't.

 

[Cephus]

Sure, what I think is important to distinguish here is that I want faith. If I could choose to believe I would. I just can't.

Nobody can. I don't want faith though, I want fact. If I have fact, I don't need faith.

 

[Drolefille]

Nobody can. I don't want faith though, I want fact. If I have fact, I don't need faith.

That's fair, and I acknowledge the irrationality of wanting faith, in a way, but I want it. Unwilling agnostic

 

[Cephus]

That's fair, and I acknowledge the irrationality of wanting faith, in a way, but I want it. Unwilling agnostic

The question is, WHY do you want it? Why would you want it instead of knowledge?

 

[Draka]

The question is, WHY do you want it? Why would you want it instead of knowledge?

My question to you would be why do you think the two cancel each other out? Just because one doesn't believe in some deity or "supernatural" belief does not mean they have more knowledge than one who does.

 

[turk179]

The question is, WHY do you want it? Why would you want it instead of knowledge?

For me I was happier when I had faith. Maybe it was the belief in an eternal afterlife or reincarnation. Now I'm pretty sure that I'm just worm food.

 

[Draka]

For me I was happier when I had faith. Maybe it was the belief in an eternal afterlife or reincarnation. Now I'm pretty sure that I'm just worm food.

You want to avoid worm food hun I'll just cremate you.

 

[Cephus]

My question to you would be why do you think the two cancel each other out? Just because one doesn't believe in some deity or "supernatural" belief does not mean they have more knowledge than one who does.

The question was between knowledge and faith. I choose knowledge, at least the pursuit of it. He chooses faith. I asked why he picked the one he did. That is all.

 

[Cephus]

For me I was happier when I had faith. Maybe it was the belief in an eternal afterlife or reincarnation. Now I'm pretty sure that I'm just worm food.

Reality isn't about happiness. Reality is about dealing with what actually is. Yes, more likely than not, we are just worm food. So what? It's what actually happens, we need to deal with it and enjoy the time we're actually here because it is a limited commodity.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

For me I was happier when I had faith. Maybe it was the belief in an eternal afterlife or reincarnation. Now I'm pretty sure that I'm just worm food.

Well...it may or may not be comforting, but whatever you thought (or still think) reality doesn't change. So don't let beliefs effect happiness too much.

 

[Katzpur]

You asked how I know all Scripture is inspired. I know because God said it in 2 Timothy 3:16. I choose to believe all of the Scriptures. I don't pick and choose which ones to believe and which to toss. I accept all.

Actually, you don't believe all of the scriptures. You accept all of them that are bound within the cover of the book called "The Bible" (and you don't even accept all of the ones in the Catholic Bible). Since the Bible had not even been compiled at the time 2 Timothy was written, so the word "scripture," as found in 2 Timothy would have had to refer to "any sacred writings, inspired by God."

Had you lived in a much earlier time period, you'd have accepted as scripture a significantly different selection of "books" than those found in today's Bibles. It would be more accurate for you to say that you choose to believe all of the Protestant Bible is inspired. And it goes without saying that you definitely don't accept as scripture all of the sacred writings I do.

 

[Draka]

The question was between knowledge and faith. I choose knowledge, at least the pursuit of it. He chooses faith. I asked why he picked the one he did. That is all.

Still doesn't answer WHY you believe one must choose between the two as if they are at odds. They simply don't have to be and often are not.

 

[turk179]

Reality isn't about happiness. Reality is about dealing with what actually is. Yes, more likely than not, we are just worm food. So what? It's what actually happens, we need to deal with it and enjoy the time we're actually here because it is a limited commodity.

I disagree completely. To me reality is all about happiness. Call it selfish but my entire existence revolves around making myself and others happy. Faith helped me with that. But don't worry Cephus, I know better now.

Well...it may or may not be comforting, but whatever you thought (or still think) reality doesn't change. So don't let beliefs effect happiness too much.

It is comforting and I agree with you.

 

[katiemygirl]

Actually, you don't believe all of the scriptures. You accept all of them that are bound within the cover of the book called "The Bible" (and you don't even accept all of the ones in the Catholic Bible). Since the Bible had not even been compiled at the time 2 Timothy was written, so the word "scripture," as found in 2 Timothy would have had to refer to "any sacred writings, inspired by God."

Had you lived in a much earlier time period, you'd have accepted as scripture a significantly different selection of "books" than those found in today's Bibles. It would be more accurate for you to say that you choose to believe all of the Protestant Bible is inspired. And it goes without saying that you definitely don't accept as scripture all of the sacred writings I do.

Yes, I accept all 66 books of the Bible. They are inspired. This thread was not started to prove that God exists or that the Bible is God's word. It's about whether or not we choose to have faith.