Its not euthanasia, its suicide.

[Shadow Wolf]

They are not actually objectively real or measurable.

Ive known people with such disorders. Yes, they are real. Your dismissing of them is terrible, shame on you, it takes a very special calloused disregard to say it's not real (an in-law of sorts has spent his adult life in amd out of mental hospitals and jails and prisons due his schizophrenia).

Do you think that perhaps doctors are doing people a disservice by putting an arbitrary label on them, and saying that they cannot achieve the same things in life that others can because they have this imaginary "condition" that can't be cured?

I know you need really learn about these things, desperately need to meet people with those disorders and accept the fact a mental illness can be just as debilitating as a broken bone.
Or maybe not. Your use of "imaginary condition" is known for being very destructive and detrimental towards recovery so maybe take that meeting people off the list until you've done some more research.
(by the way, you have told many people here a disorder they have isn't real amd have blanket dismissed their suffering)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So you say.

The field if healthcare says so.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Ive known people with such disorders. Yes, they are real. Your dismissing of them is terrible, shame on you, it takes a very special calloused disregard to say it's not real (an in-law of sorts has spent his adult life in amd out of mental hospitals and jails and prisons due his schizophrenia).

I know you need really learn about these things, desperately need to meet people with those disorders and accept the fact a mental illness can be just as debilitating as a broken bone.
Or maybe not. Your use of "imaginary condition" is known for being very destructive and detrimental towards recovery so maybe take that meeting people off the list until you've done some more research.
(by the way, you have told many people here a disorder they have isn't real amd have blanket dismissed their suffering)

Ahh, okay. So my suggestion that we should not label people with subjectively defined incurable illnesses and instead encourage them to achieve their dreams and not give up hope is bad for their recovery, but your suggestion that we should label them as hopelessly and incurably sick and let doctors encourage them to off themselves is good for their recovery?

 

[The Hammer]

Who are we to say that mental/emotional pain is of a lesser concern than physical pain?

 

[The Hammer]

Ahh, okay. So my suggestion that we should not label people with subjectively defined incurable illnesses and instead encourage them to achieve their dreams and not give up hope is bad for their recovery, but your suggestion that we should label them as hopelessly and incurably sick and let doctors encourage them to off themselves is good for their recovery?

Depends on whether or not they have an acute or chronic problem no?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Who are we to say that mental/emotional pain is of a lesser concern than physical pain?

I never said that

 

[The Hammer]

I never said that

That's why that wasn't directed towards you?

 

[Kathryn]

The field if healthcare says so.

The field if healthcare says so.

I actually sort of agree with you but a link would be great. And I don't know why the site posted your post twice but I'm too lazy to try to figure it out.

 

[McBell]

I actually sort of agree with you but a link would be great. And I don't know why the site posted your post twice but I'm too lazy to try to figure it out.

Research shows that people with a mental health problem are more likely to have a preventable physical health condition such as heart disease.​

​

This can be for a variety of reasons, including:​

​

genetics – the genes that make it more likely that you will develop a mental health problem may also play a part in physical health problems​

low motivation – some mental health problems or medications can affect your energy or motivation to take care of yourself​

​

difficulty with concentration and planning – you may find it hard to arrange or attend medical appointments if your mental health problem affects your concentration​

​

lack of support to change unhealthy behaviour – healthcare professionals may assume you’re not capable of making changes, so won’t offer any support to cut down on drinking or give up smoking, for example​

​

being less likely to receive medical help – healthcare professionals may assume your physical symptoms are part of your mental illness and not investigate them further. People with a mental illness are less likely to receive routine checks (like blood pressure, weight and cholesterol) that might detect symptoms of physical health conditions earlier.​

​

As well as this, mental health problems can come with physical symptoms. Our bodies and minds are not separate, so it’s not surprising that mental ill health can affect your body. Depression can come with headaches, fatigue and digestive problems, and anxiety can create an upset stomach, for example. Other symptoms can include insomnia, restlessness and difficulty concentrating.​

Physical health and mental health

How your mental health affects your physical health, and what you can do to help yourself.

www.mentalhealth.org.uk

 

[Secret Chief]

Why would a mentally sound person want to kill himself?

Because they have an incurable painful terminal illness? Is that acceptable to you?

 

[Secret Chief]

You don't have a choice to do that

One does have a choice. Just that you don't agree with this fact.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Good job you don't work in mental health then.

Any clinician, doctor or therapist who recommends suicide to a mentally ill patient should be fired and imprisoned. The end, really. In a healthy society, this stuff isn't debated because healthy societies don't produce these sort of sociopathic issues. This is a collapse of society sort of issue. It reveals our total moral bankruptcy and callousness.

 

[Secret Chief]

Many of these mental "diseases" that you are alluding to are just labels invented in the last century or two that are given to people who display behaviors that fall into some humanmade categories. They are not actually objectively real or measurable. Do you think that perhaps doctors are doing people a disservice by putting an arbitrary label on them, and saying that they cannot achieve the same things in life that others can because they have this imaginary "condition" that can't be cured?

An impressive level of ignorance. Your "imaginary conditions" have always existed, but historically were not assessed and identified (and named). And they don't mean potential life achievements are restricted, but identification of them can assist people in various ways.

 

[Secret Chief]

My posting is normal for conservatives, which are the global majority.

If you think committing suicide is beneficial, that's individualistic and almost everyone outside of these bizarre Western nations would agree it's highly immoral, selfish and hurtful to those around you.

Presumably your claimed conservative global majority is outside of "these bizarre Western nations" ?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Doctors have a professional responsibility.
If it is their honest professional opinion that they don't see any improvement in the future, why should they lie and say the opposite?

I want my doctors to be honest with me. I can still not believe them and go get a second and third and fourth opinion.
I want them to tell me what they honestly think. Not what they think I want to hear.

I'm not saying that doctors should lie; I'm saying that the very statement that a patient's mental health will never get better is quite literally impossible to ascertain given the gaps in our current knowledge about mental illness, the brain, and the connection between both. There is not a single person on Earth, be they a doctor or otherwise, who can currently declare such a prognosis with certainty.

When declaring such a prognosis leads a patient to finalize a decision to opt for suicide, I think the declaration becomes rife with ethical problems, not to mention its medical overreach given the abovementioned gaps in knowledge. I was given a similar prognosis before, and I'm glad it turned out to be wrong.

 

[Secret Chief]

Any clinician, doctor or therapist who recommends suicide to a mentally ill patient should be fired and imprisoned. The end, really. In a healthy society, this stuff isn't debated because healthy societies don't produce these sort of sociopathic issues. This is a collapse of society sort of issue. It reveals our total moral bankruptcy and callousness.

Which clinician, doctor or therapist has recommended suicide? I don't see that in the linked article (granted it's the New York Post, so not maybe the best source).

 

[Secret Chief]

I'm saying that the very statement that a patient's mental health will never get better is quite literally impossible to ascertain

Autism* is not something that can be got "better." It is a lifelong, developmental disability. Treatment and support may be beneficial, but the person will always have ASC.

*as in the OP referral.

To say it is "imaginary" is a disservice to such people.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Ahh, okay. So my suggestion that we should not label people with subjectively defined incurable illnesses and instead encourage them to achieve their dreams and not give up hope is bad for their recovery, but your suggestion that we should label them as hopelessly and incurably sick and let doctors encourage them to off themselves is good for their recovery?

How about you learn hiw treatment really works instead of getting it embarassingly wrong. Give up hope? Clearly you don't know much about mental healthcare. The goal is to help patients achieve their dreams and help them find hope. However, some illnesses will not be cured. Such as schizophrenia. Treatment can help but it's never going away.
And by the way, what you call subjective science calls genetics and brain maldevelopment.
Also I never siad we should label them hopeless. That's all you reading nonsense into my posts. Encourage them to off themselves? Shame on you.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Autism* is not something that can be got "better." It is a lifelong, developmental disability. Treatment and support may be beneficial, but the person will always have ASC.

*as in the OP referral.

Yes, I'm aware that some people have lifelong mental health issues. I don't think anyone can say with certainty that a person who has them will never experience improvement even if only via more effective management or treatment of the condition in question, though. That the condition may be lifelong doesn't mean anyone can say it will never be treated in a way that will give the patient some improvement.

To say it is "imaginary" is a disservice to such people.

I agree. I have never said such a thing, though, so I'm not sure whether the above was meant as a reply to my post. I know that mental health issues are far from imaginary.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Autism* is not something that can be got "better." It is a lifelong, developmental disability. Treatment and support may be beneficial, but the person will always have ASC.

What do you mean by better? I've learned how to better socialize with people. I've learned how to better cope with and management outbursts and meltdowns. I still sometimes have problems with sensory overload, but I've learned how to better manage things to help reduce the chances of that happening.