It's simple! (to be or not to be revisited)

[dybmh]

Hatred, that can become delusion when it overcomes your mind.

agreed.

Ah, but the poisons can overcome one's mind--and therefore one's unbiased judgment

agreed.

This demonstrates how hatred can overcome ones mind, and hence, the usefulness of the article from the opening post.

agreed.

This condition is affecting those who hate transphobes, right?

 

[dybmh]

I prefer sporks.

Jay's comment* fails because it is another example of "saying one thing, and meaning something else." It's the same problem with the OP, again, ignoring the contempt.

* (@Jayhawker Soule, tagging you in strict adherence to the forum rules. )

 

[crossfire]

agreed.



agreed.



agreed.

This condition is affecting those who hate transphobes, right?

Hatred can overcome anyone's mind, especially if you don't recognize it for what it is. Hatred doesn't overcome hatred. It only builds more hatred. Hatred is overcome by non-hatred. (paraphrased from Dhammapada 1:5)

 

[Revoltingest]

Jay's comment* fails because....

you make the wrong inference.

 

[dybmh]

Hatred, that can become delusion when it overcomes your mind. ... Hatred can overcome anyone's mind, especially if you don't recognize it for what it is.

"Hatred >>> is becoming >>> Delusion"

How is it recognized? What are the signs?

 

[dybmh]

you make the wrong inference.

~shrugs~

it's a vacuous retort

 

[dybmh]

I prefer sporks.

I should have realized you are no longer interested in serious discussion.

 

[Revoltingest]

~shrugs~

it's a vacuous retort

 

[PureX]

There is a person working the till at a small hardware store I often go into. This person is young, quite beautiful, friendly, and yet I cannot tell by any of the usual social indicators whether they are male or female, or even if they are in the process of transitioning in either direction. Even their name tag could refer to either gender.

The first time I encountered this human it took me aback a little, because it's incredibly rare to encounter someone that is that thoroughly 'unreadable'. Voice, mannerisms, attire, name tag, hair style, are all equally indicative of a male of a female. But since I was just there to make a purchase, not to decide the sex or sexuality of the teller, I just went about my business.

But a moment later, as I was driving away, I was thinking to myself how fortunate I was to have had that encounter. I really liked this rarefied being: that they exist in the world. That they were not feeling ashamed or afraid to be who and whatever they are. And that the store owner did not reject them for that job. Or the customers fuss or complain about it. (So far as I know.)

If this is the effect of "wokeness" in this country then I am pleased and proud to live in a "woke" culture where a human like this one can exist, and be appreciated. Or at least willingly tolerated. I would be honored to call that human being my friend if the circumstances were to arise. Or to hire them, or to be their next door neighbor, or sit next to them in church, or fight next to them in a foxhole, or whatever else. And I can't see any reason why anyone else wouldn't.

 

[dybmh]

Ignore-list

 

[Revoltingest]

Ignore-list

Promises promises.

 

[dybmh]

I really liked this rarefied being: that they exist in the world.

Amen, Amen

"Normalizing" the physiology of trans people doesn't go far enough.

 

[icehorse]

It is indeed simple:

"respect people’s right to tell you who they are, and remember that you don’t have all the answers."

They can tell me "who they are" all they want to. But a new bill protecting women's spaces will be introduced in the next day or two. Below is an excerpt that includes proposed definitions for biological sex, female, and male.

I think these definitions are quite good, and when it comes to safeguarding laws the best I've seen:

 

[dybmh]

I think these definitions are quite good, and when it comes to safeguarding laws the best I've seen:

I disagree. It's simultaneously too narrow and too vague. Let's start with vague?

"the term 'female' means an individual who naturally ... " <--- naturally is undefined.

It's natural for someone with gender dysmorphia to have corrective surgery, but, I am guessing many will exclude them as "female" based on this definition.

 

[VoidCat]

They can tell me "who they are" all they want to. But a new bill protecting women's spaces will be introduced in the next day or two. Below is an excerpt that includes proposed definitions for biological sex, female, and male.

I think these definitions are quite good, and when it comes to safeguarding laws the best I've seen:

If im understanding this right due to me having a uterus and eggs and not producing sperm I am a bio female. I could be misunderstanding the definitions. But if those definitions insist biological females in female spaces only and im not allowed to use bio male spaces... I'm on hormones. I grow a beard out. My voice is deep. In certain circumstances even now i look like a bio male.

...I'm not sure I like this idea. Some women might get terrified.

 

[dybmh]

I think these definitions are quite good

OK, how about this?

There's a legal definition which is determined by a range of hormone levels. It's objective. Measurable. It's simple. And that's the topic of the thread.

 

[icehorse]

If im understanding this right due to me having a uterus and eggs and not producing sperm I am a bio female. I could be misunderstanding the definitions. But if those definitions insist biological females in female spaces only... I'm on hormones. I grow a beard out. My voice is deep. In certain circumstances even now i look like a bio male.

...I'm not sure I like this idea. Some women might get terrified.

Unisex spaces are available. And so the OP is calling for respect and kindness. Why wouldn't you want to be kind to women if you feel your appearance might frighten them if they encountered you in a women's safe space?

 

[icehorse]

OK, how about this?

There's a legal definition which is determined by a range of hormone levels. It's objective. Measurable. It's simple. And that's the topic of the thread.

Sorry, I missed that - where was that? thanks

 

[VoidCat]

Unisex spaces are available. And so the OP is calling for respect and kindness. Why wouldn't you want to be kind to women if you feel your appearance might frighten them if they encountered you in a women's safe space?

Not where I live. Very few of those regarding bathrooms. If I go to go in public I usually just go to which bathroom looks most like how I'm dressed. Get weird looks in both bathrooms and been told in both bathrooms I'm in the wrong one.

I'd be kind to women. I usually am. In fact in most cases they'd probably think I'm in the wrong bathroom and point "the right one out". I'm just pointing out the definiations are flawed. The problem isn't women thinking I'm in the wrong bathroom it's the fear mongering that I'd cause problems in said bathroom just cuz I look different and got to pee. And fear mongering that men are going into women's bathrooms pretending to be women as if a sign and law is going to stop a predator dressed like
a guy or girl from raping someone so we must stop trans people from using bathrooms.

 

[VoidCat]

@icehorse I'm telling you it's frustrating bathrooms sometimes. Trans people are not the enemy. We just want to pee in peace. Most of us just go to what we look the most like. A lot of these laws and policies preventing trans people from using the bathroom that aligns with their gender identity or appearance just causes more problems. Ends up not letting many of us want to go in public. Why would we when we can't even use the bathroom without either breaking the law, scaring people due to fear mongering or putting our own safety at risk?

Luckily here it's not against the law for me to use either bathroom so I don't have to worry as much.

Edit:
And such laws don't protect women. A rapist isn't going to think twice about a sign. I find it concerning instead of prosecuting rapists when rape is already agaisnt the law and make it easier for such crimes to be prosecuted we criminalize people using the bathroom trying to pee.