SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Yet Bernie still wants to raise taxes on the 1%ers. Hmmm ... a man who sticks to his principles. Amazing. Does Trump even have any principles?
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It's true; fake news is a problem.
- Thread starter Father Heathen
- Start date
He has some consistencies which could be seen as principles, eg, pro-Israel.
I caution all against believing people on the other side are entirely unprincipled.
I agree. No one is completely without some positive aspects as well as negative. What continues to astound me is the following he has from within a group that upholds many principles that Trump does not seem to possess, while supporting positions that they would, by their own identified standards, be against. They seem fixated on the man to the point that they gleefully extol his negative aspects as if they were virtues.
I think you have identified some of the reasoning behind this based on the different perspectives that people use when looking for and assessing leaders. Those that respect character focus on that and those that look for certain results focus on those. But it is still amazing to watch people sell out the principles they support and then attack others for having those same negative aspects. Perhaps this is a harsh assessment, but a lot of the evidence does fit that.
It has occurred to me that there are many reasons a person might support one side or another on any issue and not all them have anything to do with the virtues of the issues or the virtues and skill of the representatives. Becoming devoutly religious can happen for reasons that have nothing to do with spiritual epiphany. Supporting a political position, party or leader should ideally be based on knowledge and conscious, but it could result from any of many different reasons from the profound, to the profane to the petty.
I think this may be an important point to remember in cases like this one, where we deal with people on an individual basis, even if anonymous. That and it is a two way street.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
The one I mentioned is one of his consistencies.
I agree.
I specifically asked if Trump has any principles.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
So you're not emotional, except when you are. Alrighty then.You'd be incorrect. I am of no emotion, other than when you say something silly and crack me up.
Cool calm objectivity, reason, and logic. Mixed in with a bit of sassy pants.
Nah I'm good. You can attack me personally all you want. It will not serve you well.
Humans typically do.
To claim he doesn't should be backed up by reason.
Even Obama & Clinton had principles. So Trump could too.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
In the case of Trump, I've yet to see him either state or adhere to any specific principles. He seems to be a go-with-whatever-benefits-me-at-the-moment kind of guy.
That is pretty much how I see it, though he does seem to value loyalty among his associates. That alone does not make him virtuous, though. Stalin, Lincoln, Manson and Audie Murphy likely valued loyalty as well.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
That's true. He does seem to expect absolute loyalty from everyone, though he doesn't seem all that willing to reciprocate. So I guess we could say he values the principle of loyal, but only when it's directed towards him.
A former friend used to talk about the virtues of family and how he valued those virtues. It turns out his value was limited to just his family and not families in general. It is interesting how people circumscribe values and important to recognize and identify those differences.
While he strikes me as scatterbrained too (like most blondes),
he appears to hold some values....
- Pro-Israel
- Conservative values (for others to practice)
- Pro-business (so long as they do what he wants)
- Pro-loyalty
We should strive to see some positive things in our political foes.
Even Obama wasn't all bad.
And Hillary's pantsuits were tasteful.
Sorry that won't cut it.
sealchan
Well-Known Member
Ok then I guess we can agree to disagree.
That what he says, he also owns multiple million dollar estates. How come he hasn't divided his own money amongst the poor?
Shad
Veteran Member
It has been a problem for decades. It merely has become far more of a hot topic these days.
(Keeping things within context of modern media. Propaganda itself is a problem for millennia)
That is acceptable. The truth of the whole matter will play out in Congress, and in the courts soon enough. I've waited 3 years with the knowledge this was a witch hunt, and waiting to see it go up in smoke once revealed. A few more weeks is nothing.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Indeed. To me-- there is no better proof of a god who cannot be bothered, than self-proclaimed speakers for god, who are Ugly Americans.
I read the bible-- I see the things it's god does to people, for the slightest provocation, and they usually end up dead.
Obviously, that does not happen in real life-- which is likely a very good thing, else there would be a lot of dead folk littering up the streets.
So I must conclude the bible was wrong. If it is wrong about such a serious issue: False Prophets, claiming to speak for god, but doing things that makes god strike them dead?
What else did the bible get wrong?
I'm kinda glad it's wrong, though-- in spite of my sarcastic tone-- I really would not wish harm to the most hateful person. I'm against the death penalty-- no matter the crime, I'm against killing people in the name of the people (government death penalty).
I'll always be, I expect-- I lament the harm of the least of people. In that regard? I'm far more moral than those who believe they will be sitting all tidy, in Heaven, while the majority of folk are suffering infinite torment. I could not do so-- I would be all up in god's face, demanding that they be released from hell; into purgatory at the very least, or oblivion. Anything but infinite suffering.
In that regard I consider myself more moral than a hell-creating god. Or anyone who believes in such things.
As I recall, you are not a Hell Theologist, did I remember right?
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
I guess so ... he just strikes me as someone who only values things that will benefit him personally. Which I guess are still considered values, of a sort.
Ugh, I think her pantsuits are one of the worst things about her. There are nice pantsuits out there, she's just not wearing any of them.
Obama knows how to dress.