Jayhawker Soule (he/him)

[Shadow Wolf]

So you think a castrated male is not longer male.

 

[We Never Know]

Lol. You cut the gonads off a male, he is still a male.

Now he can't perform like a male with gonads but he is still male.

Anyone thinking that a male with this gonads cut off isn't a male doesn't change that he is still a male.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Lol. You cut the gonads off a male, he is still a male.

Now he can't perform like a male with gonads but he is still male.

Anyone thinking that a male with this gonads cut off isn't a male doesn't change that he is still a male.

Now, try to understand for a moment that traditionally that didn't matter. Eunuchs we're considered men. And try better amd harder at understanding that's not my own personal opinion.

 

[We Never Know]

Now, try to understand for a moment that traditionally that didn't matter. Eunuchs we're considered men. And try better amd harder at understanding that's not my own personal opinion.

Again. Just because other people didn't think they were male didn't change that they were still male.

 

[dybmh]

I basically see using it/its for me is like you would call a baby or an animal it/its. No one sees them less deserving of rights or love them any less.

I don't even like calling animals it. They're more dignified than that. I've also not heard anyone refer to a baby as it.

For what it's worth ( pun unintended ), "It" is the pronoun I use for the God of Abraham. As a devotee, I do not consider it undignified. "It" hasn't quite caught on yet as a pronoun for God, but, I'm not alone in using ... "It".

 

[dybmh]

I'm not sure why I'm getting this reaction from people.

I'm reading it as overly-rigid. There are no exceptions in your point of view regarding gender identity?

 

[Alien826]

I'm not aware of any laws but some names I assume would get reported to child services.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Again. Just because other people didn't think they were male didn't change that they were still male.

They did not see it that way. Eunuchs were not men, they were not male.

 

[We Never Know]

They did not see it that way. Eunuchs were not men, they were not male.

They were still male. <<<notice that word male.
Its the word I've used throughout here.

It doesn't matter of they weren't seen as men.
It doesn't matter of they were seen as dogs or whatever.

They were still male

 

[We Never Know]

They did not see it that way. Eunuchs were not men, they were not male.

They were still male

Fyi....

"Many eunuchs were recognized for their loyalty, managerial style, wisdom, and pedagogical skills. Furthermore, rather than being consistently asexual and celibate, they were often sexually active. In certain cultures, they were objects of sexual desire for males, or females, or both"

The sexuality and social performance of androgen-deprived (castrated) men throughout history: implications for modern day cancer patients - PubMed

Androgen-deprivation therapy (ADT) via either surgical or chemical castration is the standard treatment for advanced prostate cancer (PCa). In North America, it is estimated that more than 40,000 men start ADT each year. The side effects of this treatment are extensive and include gynecomastia...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

@SalixIncendium
@libre

You two came to mind when I first red the following:

Linguistically, personal pronouns are words that refer to people by replacing proper nouns, like names. A pronoun can refer to either a person performing an action or a person who is having an action done to them. Common pronouns include they/them/theirs, she/her/hers, and he/him/his. Pronouns often indicate the gender of a person; traditionally, he refers to males while she refers to females. While the English language does not have a unique gender-neutral third-person singular pronoun, they has been used to identify singular persons in speech, popular literature, and dictionary reference materials since at least the 12th century. In fact, singular use of  they has been officially recognized as correct by several key bodies such as the Associated Press, American Psychological Association (APA) and Modern Language Association (MLA), the Oxford English Dictionary, and the Merriam-Webster Dictionary. [emphasis added - JS] [source]​

I would love to see some of these century-old examples. In any event, I stand corrected. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[libre]

I would love to see some of these century-old examples. In any event, I stand corrected. Thanks for the discussion.

I read this article attributing singular they use to Emily Dickinson.

Singular 'They'

Though singular 'they' is old, 'they' as a nonbinary pronoun is new—and useful

www.merriam-webster.com

It seems quite organic to me when the gender is intentionally ambiguous or unknown, but understand that such as an identified pronoun may feel unusual to start. With habitual use it became quite usual to me. (My eldest sibling is a they/them).

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I read this article attributing singular they use to Emily Dickinson.

Singular 'They'

Though singular 'they' is old, 'they' as a nonbinary pronoun is new—and useful

www.merriam-webster.com

Which begins:

​

One common bugbear of the grammatical stickler is the singular they. For those who haven’t kept up, the complaint is this: the use of they as a gender-neutral pronoun (as in, “Ask each of the students what they want for lunch.”) is ungrammatical because they is a plural pronoun.​

Count me among those "who haven't kept up."

It seems quite organic to me when the gender is intentionally ambiguous or unknown, but understand that such as an identified pronoun may feel unusual to start. With habitual use it became quite usual to me. (My eldest sibling is a they/them).

Just to be clear, I can understand why they might prefer 'they' to 'he' or 'she', and I fully intend to respect their preference.

But notice that my sentence above might be referring to your eldest sibling or to some group of entities. Overloading pronouns adds ambiguity, while establishing appropriate neologisms contributes to clarity.

 

[libre]

But notice that my sentence above might be referring to your eldest sibling or to some group of entities. Overloading pronouns adds ambiguity, while establishing appropriate neologisms contributes to clarity.

I see your point - and there are transgender people who share it and use 'neo' pronouns.
Unfortunately at the present time there is much adversity towards such, I see why they are not widely employed.

I have also seen people write 'Refer to me by my name' in pronoun fields.

 

[Revoltingest]

Which begins:

​

One common bugbear of the grammatical stickler is the singular they. For those who haven’t kept up, the complaint is this: the use of they as a gender-neutral pronoun (as in, “Ask each of the students what they want for lunch.”) is ungrammatical because they is a plural pronoun.​

Count me among those "who haven't kept up."



Just to be clear, I can understand why they might prefer 'they' to 'he' or 'she', and I fully intend to respect their preference.

But notice that my sentence above might be referring to your eldest sibling or to some group of entities. Overloading pronouns adds ambiguity, while establishing appropriate neologisms contributes to clarity.

And yet, the singular use of "they" goes back half a dozen centuries.
There is no useful clarity in limiting it to plural.
It functions as the genderless "ta" in Chinese (Mandarin).

 

[Guitar's Cry]

You don't get to choose your own identity.

If society sees you as male or female, they give you your pronoun accordingly.

There is no 'they/them' nonsense. You are male or female.

You don't choose your place in society, it's chosen for you. Just like your name, where you are born, what sex you are and what your eye colour is.

You haven't free choice in everything and asking someone's pronouns is a garbage way of reinforcing the idea that they can be chosen. You choose them by how you refer to the person, and others choose yours.

That's how it's been since we invented language.

Sometimes the individual has to rebel against the norms society places on them. That's as much in our nature as conformity. That's how we progress.

 

[Debater Slayer]

***Mod Post***​

Thread moved to General Discussion per staff consensus.​