Jayhawker Soule (he/him)

[Jayhawker Soule]

You're calling modern dictionary usage incorrect. That puts you in the wrong. Especially with Salix using the OED (it heavily out ranks Miriam Webster).

... and even the Merriam-Webster

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Your sex is chosen for you by biology and reinforced by society.

Except when you're like David Bowie.

 

[Viker]

I'm not sure why I'm getting this reaction from people. My position is shared by the majority offline.

It's standard.

If you look like a man people call you he, if you look like a woman, people call you she. You can't just pick who you are.

This is always how it has been.

Well, good thing I look like a she.


*blends in with the shes*

BTW, people can change their names, locations, jobs, religion, their place in society. I was born into a blue collar household. I'm not blue collar now. Why can't I change my identity?

Birth certificate is just a piece of paper. An amendable legal hassle.

 

[Rival]

Well, good thing I look like a she.


*blends in with the shes*

BTW, people can change their names, locations, jobs, religion, their place in society. I was born into a blue collar household. I'm not blue collar now. Why can't I change my identity?

Birth certificate is just a piece of paper. An amendable legal hassle.

I don't think people quite understood what I am saying. I was thinking far deeper than that.

But I'm not surprised RF doesn't get it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

To my knowledge, I don't think we have any legal standards around here for naming.

Adolf probably wouldn't go over the grandest, but they're out there. There's nothing preventing a person from naming their son after Grandpa Adolf, and if a person does that they are within their rights to have said child called Adolf.

I'm not aware of any laws but some names I assume would get reported to child services.

 

[JustGeorge]

I'm not aware of any laws but some names I assume would get reported to child services.

My sister named her kid Grimm for the Grim Reaper.

My son thought he was named for the dog in Mother Goose and Grimm.

 

[crossfire]

I've been using singular they pretty regularly since I was a child, and singular they was often used by the other kids I spoke with. No one thought it was strange. (Maybe it was picked it up from Shakespeare--it was so long ago )

An example might be: "If a person comes in, have them wash their hands." We always used they/them instead of he or she/him or her and their instead of his or her. It just made more sense than saying "If a person comes in, have him or her wash his or her hands."

 

[crossfire]

I really find it puzzling how upset some people get over singular they/them. Why get upset over unisex pronouns? Do ya'll (yes, the proper 2nd person plural word is you, but that has long been used as a singular pronoun as well) get upset over unisex clothing as well? The second person pronoun you is a unisex pronoun, for crimeny's sake!

 

[crossfire]

You don't get to choose your own identity.

You get to choose what you identify with.

If society sees you as male or female, they give you your pronoun accordingly.

There is no 'they/them' nonsense.

I will address this later in this post.

You are male or female.

Interestingly, the pronoun you is a unisex pronoun that was formerly the proper plural second person pronoun that also became a singular second person pronoun when the words thee, thou, and ye fell into disuse. (Those singular pronouns were also unisex.

You don't choose your place in society, it's chosen for you.

As a Left-hand path practitioner, I can only laugh at this.

Just like your name,

Your name is often changed when you go through a marriage ritual or when you go through a religious confirmation ritual. Given names were often given through a christening ritual.

where you are born,

I'll give you that one

what sex you are

Humans have been creating eunuchs for a long time.

and what your eye colour is.

My eyes were blue when I was born, then they turned green, then brown, then hazel. My hair color and texture has also changed over my lifetime.

You haven't free choice in everything and asking someone's pronouns is a garbage way of reinforcing the idea that they can be chosen. You choose them by how you refer to the person, and others choose yours.

Remember when you said "There is no they/them nonsense" towards the beginning of this post? Does this mean that you can't force me to not use singular they/them?

That's how it's been since we invented language.

Authoritarians have long tried to control language, with mixed results.

 

[libre]

You don't get to choose your own identity.

If society sees you as male or female, they give you your pronoun accordingly.

There is no 'they/them' nonsense. You are male or female.

I apologise for that.

I tried to just be direct about my beliefs.

I'm not sure what I could have done otherwise?

I can appreciate being direct.
However, to match that energy: I must say that such an attitude displays open disregard for the psychological impact of being misgendered. It may seem trivial to you, but you're not the one who has to deal with it, and trans people obviously don't appreciate such. Respecting pronouns has been identified as an important method of suicide prevention for trans people.

If society sees you as male or female, they give you your pronoun accordingly.

FWIW - gender neutrality was a perfectly normal thing in many societies on my continent before French and British settlers came here and tried to stomp such out with cultural genocide.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I really find it puzzling how upset some people get over singular they/them

Which people?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

FWIW - gender neutrality was a perfectly normal thing in many societies on my continent before French and British settlers came here and tried to stomp such out with cultural genocide.

It would be interesting to know the various ways the indigenous languages reflected this.

 

[crossfire]

Which people?

You're right. Those who get upset over it have to own their own hang-ups.

 

[We Never Know]

You get to choose what you identify with.

I will address this later in this post.

Interestingly, the pronoun you is a unisex pronoun that was formerly the proper plural second person pronoun that also became a singular second person pronoun when the words thee, thou, and ye fell into disuse. (Those singular pronouns were also unisex.

As a Left-hand path practitioner, I can only laugh at this.

Your name is often changed when you go through a marriage ritual or when you go through a religious confirmation ritual. Given names were often given through a christening ritual.

I'll give you that one

Humans have been creating eunuchs for a long time.

My eyes were blue when I was born, then they turned green, then brown, then hazel. My hair color and texture has also changed over my lifetime.

Remember when you said "There is no they/them nonsense" towards the beginning of this post? Does this mean that you can't force me to not use singular they/them?

Authoritarians have long tried to control language, with mixed results.

"Humans have been creating eunuchs for a long time"

That doesn't change sex or gender. So not seeing your point here.


"My eyes were blue when I was born, then they turned green, then brown, then hazel. My hair color and texture has also changed over my lifetime"

You didn't choose that change. So not seeing your point here.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It just made more sense than saying "If a person comes in, have him or her wash his or her hands."

I remember I used to see that a lot, or something like s/he.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That doesn't change sex or gender. So not seeing your point here.

Traditionally eunuchs were not considered men.

 

[We Never Know]

Traditionally eunuchs were not considered men.

They were still male.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They were still male.

Not to them.

 

[crossfire]

"Humans have been creating eunuchs for a long time"

That doesn't change sex or gender. So not seeing your point here.

Eunuchs filled specific roles in society that couldn't be trusted to either men or women.

"My eyes were blue when I was born, then they turned green, then brown, then hazel. My hair color and texture has also changed over my lifetime"

You didn't choose that change. So not seeing your point here.

I do have some control over my eye color--they get more brown when exposed to sunlight, and get more green when I avoid sunlight. I don't try to consciously manipulate their color, though. I'm not really attached to my eye color. I can change my hair color with dye, or its texture with perms or straighteners, or other cosmetic implements, but I don't choose to do so.

 

[We Never Know]

Not to them.

Oh. So you think a castrated male is not longer male.
Does that mean anyone with gonads is a male?