Jayhawker Soule (he/him)

[SalixIncendium]

Reasonableness is not the issue.

If I am unsure of your gender, I might wonder:

Why did libra consider my response to be unreasonable?​

but never

Why did they consider my response to be unreasonable?​

if only because, in my mind, "they" asserts plurality and people are more than gender. For what little it's worth, while I don't view this as a right/wrong issue, I would have preferred neologisms in the vein of "Latinx."

You do understand the purpose of pronouns, yes?

If I was unsure of your gender, the compound sentence below, what is preferable?

Jayhawker Soule facepalmed in response to said post, because Jayhawker Soule thought any other response by Jayhawker Soule would not convey Jayhawker Soule's preference of neologisms in the vein of "Latinx."​

​

...or...

Jayhawker Soule facepalmed in response to said post, because they thought any other response by them would not convey their preference of neologisms in the vein of "Latinx."​

 

[VoidCat]

Im ok with any pronouns except she/her. That includes it/its neopronouns and they/them. Im also cool with he/him

I saw a few people comment on it/it's being dehumanizing. I like it not because it strips me of humanity but because it reminds me of animals. Some folk call them it/its. I like animals and I feel very close to them. I relate to them sometimes more then people. I am not otherkin or anything like that but I do like the its/its as a result. Also folk say it's dehumanizing but then call babies it/its. It's weird how that's the case. I can see why one would find it/its dehumanizing tho. It's also a way to throw it back to transphobes. You call me it? Well jokes on you I'm ok with that pronoun.

I basically see using it/its for me is like you would call a baby or an animal it/its. No one sees them less deserving of rights or love them any less.

Tagging @JustGeorge. And @Shadow Wolf @libre

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You do understand the purpose of pronouns, yes?

If I was unsure of your gender, the compound sentence below, what is preferable?

Jayhawker Soule facepalmed in response to said post, because Jayhawker Soule thought any other response by Jayhawker Soule would not convey Jayhawker Soule's preference of neologisms in the vein of "Latinx."​

​

...or...

Jayhawker Soule facepalmed in response to said post, because they thought any other response by them would not convey their preference of neologisms in the vein of "Latinx."​

Or
Jayhawker Soule facepalmed in response to the post, thinking any other response could not convey a personal preference for neologisms in the vein of "Latinx."

 

[SalixIncendium]

Or
Jayhawker Soule facepalmed in response to the post, thinking any other response could not convey a personal preference for neologisms in the vein of "Latinx."

Sure, but this example doesn't really reinforce my point that pronouns are used to prevent repeatedly repeating a noun, does it?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sure, but this example doesn't really reinforce my point that pronouns are used to prevent repeatedly repeating a noun, does it?

No, it just shows where are viable options that don't even use a pronoun at all. And in some situations I do believe that should be opted for to avoid confusion that can come if it's not clear enough you mean one person. It would be reasonable, afterall, for someone to conclude Jayhawker Soule may be an organization or group name given the usage of they in your own example if it were read in isolation.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Im ok with any pronouns except she/her. That includes it/its neopronouns and they/them. Im also cool with he/him

I saw a few people comment on it/it's being dehumanizing. I like it not because it strips me of humanity but because it reminds me of animals. Some folk call them it/its. I like animals and I feel very close to them. I relate to them sometimes more then people. I am not otherkin or anything like that but I do like the its/its as a result. Also folk say it's dehumanizing but then call babies it/its. It's weird how that's the case. I can see why one would find it/its dehumanizing tho. It's also a way to throw it back to transphobes. You call me it? Well jokes on you I'm ok with that pronoun.

I basically see using it/its for me is like you would call a baby or an animal it/its. No one sees them less deserving of rights or love them any less.

Tagging @JustGeorge. And @Shadow Wolf @libre

I don't even like calling animals it. They're more dignified than that. I've also not heard anyone refer to a baby as it.

 

[Rival]

You don't get to choose your own identity.

If society sees you as male or female, they give you your pronoun accordingly.

There is no 'they/them' nonsense. You are male or female.

You don't choose your place in society, it's chosen for you. Just like your name, where you are born, what sex you are and what your eye colour is.

You haven't free choice in everything and asking someone's pronouns is a garbage way of reinforcing the idea that they can be chosen. You choose them by how you refer to the person, and others choose yours.

That's how it's been since we invented language.

 

[VoidCat]

I don't even like calling animals it. They're more dignified than that. I've also not heard anyone refer to a baby as it.

I've seen folk refer to babies as it. Maybe it's regional

 

[SalixIncendium]

No, it just shows where are viable options that don't even use a pronoun at all.

Just pointing out that you used six pronouns plus one possessive pronoun in your post.

And in some situations I do believe that should be opted for to avoid confusion that can come if it's not clear enough you mean one person. It would be reasonable, afterall, for someone to conclude Jayhawker Soule may be an organization or group name given the usage of they in your own example if it were read in isolation.

It was pretty clear in my initial example of staff interactions that we're talking about people and not organizations or groups.

That aside, if one's audience is confused about whether a person or a group is being referred to, the presenter probably has greater communication concerns than pronoun usage. I've never seen confusion of whether or not one is talking about a person or group due to the use of they/them. Context matters.

 

[Eddi]

Just like your name

I've changed my name

The name that is on my passport and bank card is different to the one on my birth certificate

Anyone can do it, you just need to sign a piece of paper saying you intend to stop using your original name and start using a new one

 

[VoidCat]

You don't get to choose your own identity.

If society sees you as male or female, they give you your pronoun accordingly.

There is no 'they/them' nonsense. You are male or female.

This individualism nonsense is out of hand.

You don't choose your place in society, it's chosen for you. Just like your name, where you are born, what sex you are and what your eye colour is.

You haven't free choice in everything and asking someone's pronouns is a garbage way of reinforcing the idea that they can be chosen. You choose them by how you refer to the person, and others choose yours.

That's how it's been since we invented language.

Im not gonna touch this with a 10 foot pole. Just that's a depressing take.

 

[Rival]

I've changed my name

The name that is on my passport and bank card is different to the one on my birth certificate

Anyone can do it, you just need to sign a piece of paper saying you intend to stop using your original name and start using a new one

But that name still must comply with local standards and cultural underpinnings.

 

[JustGeorge]

But that name still must comply with local standards and cultural underpinnings.

Not really.

The only hurdle I could see is if the name required a different alphabet.

 

[Rival]

Not really.

The only hurdle I could see is if the name required a different alphabet.

There are legal standards as to what you can name your child.

I doubt Adolf would go down well, for example. Even if you were to name your child after a German grandfather called Adolf who was the best person in the world, it wouldn't be acceptable.

 

[SalixIncendium]

You don't get to choose your own identity.

If society sees you as male or female, they give you your pronoun accordingly.

There is no 'they/them' nonsense. You are male or female.

This individualism nonsense is out of hand.

You don't choose your place in society, it's chosen for you. Just like your name, where you are born, what sex you are and what your eye colour is.

You haven't free choice in everything and asking someone's pronouns is a garbage way of reinforcing the idea that they can be chosen. You choose them by how you refer to the person, and others choose yours.

That's how it's been since we invented language.

*blinks*

 

[JustGeorge]

There are legal standards as to what you can name your child.

I doubt Adolf would go down well, for example. Even if you were to name your child after a German grandfather called Adolf who was the best person in the world.

To my knowledge, I don't think we have any legal standards around here for naming.

Adolf probably wouldn't go over the grandest, but they're out there. There's nothing preventing a person from naming their son after Grandpa Adolf, and if a person does that they are within their rights to have said child called Adolf.

 

[Rival]

To my knowledge, I don't think we have any legal standards around here for naming.

Adolf probably wouldn't go over the grandest, but they're out there. There's nothing preventing a person from naming their son after Grandpa Adolf, and if a person does that they are within their rights to have said child called Adolf.

There are limits and I think you'll have the like:

There aren’t many strict rules about baby names in the UK, but some names stretch the limit. Names that are racist or considered harmful to the child could be illegal and banned in some parts of the UK. Names that are restricted include names that:

• Are impossible to pronounce
• Include numbers, symbols, or punctuation marks (not including hyphens or apostrophes)
• Are considered offensive, vulgar, or blasphemous by the deed poll service
• Fraudulent (inferring the child has a rank, title, or inherited honour)

Names that do not include at least one first name and one surname will not be accepted.

UK Laws For Baby Names - UK Deed Poll Office

Just had a baby? Here are the important laws that you need to know regarding naming your child.

www.ukdeedpolloffice.org

I imagine the same applies for adults choosing.

 

[Rival]

*blinks*

I'm not sure why I'm getting this reaction from people. My position is shared by the majority offline.

It's standard.

If you look like a man people call you he, if you look like a woman, people call you she. You can't just pick who you are.

This is always how it has been.

 

[Eddi]

But that name still must comply with local standards and cultural underpinnings.

I don't know about the UK but I know that in New Zealand there are regulations and in Portugal too

For instance in New Zeeland you can't call a child Prince because that is a title and you can't have a title as your name there

And in Portugal there is a list of names and you can only call your children a name off that list

 

[SalixIncendium]

I'm not sure why I'm getting this reaction from people. My position is shared by the majority offline.

It's standard.

If you look like a man people call you he, if you look like a woman, people call you she. You can't just pick who you are.

This is always how it has been.

I physically winced when I read your post. It came across to me as hostile and inconsiderate of the feelings or opinions of others. I don't identify as such and even I took exception to the tone of the post.