What you you find face-palm worthy about Salix's post?
It seems quite reasonable to me.
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Jayhawker Soule (he/him)
- Thread starter Jayhawker Soule
- Start date
It seems quite reasonable to me.
Yerda
Veteran Member
They sometimes pops up as a singular pronoun when referring to someone whose gender is not known or unspecific. For example, if I were discussing the Rolling Stone's review of a record, but didn't know who had written it, I might refer to the writer as they.
"Not sure what they were smoking that day, but they definitely didn't listen to the same record that I listened to."
Most users of English would have no issue with parsing that sentence and understanding the grammar. Using they as a personal pronoun of choice is a bit different, but not so much that it should be terribly difficult to overcome the weirdness it generates.
"Not sure what they were smoking that day, but they definitely didn't listen to the same record that I listened to."
Most users of English would have no issue with parsing that sentence and understanding the grammar. Using they as a personal pronoun of choice is a bit different, but not so much that it should be terribly difficult to overcome the weirdness it generates.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
By whom they say they are. Trans men. Trans women. Men. Women.
It's not that difficult.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I reckon most probably are as this feel out of favor a long time before any of us were born (something like 18/19th century if I recall correctly is when it started to to change to just plural usage).
He/she is the correct way to address such situations. Not making the singular plural.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
A singular they has been an English norm. It's not making a singular plural, it's using they in a way we have collectively forgotten all about.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Truly, proper English grammar, when you're raised in rural Indiana, feels WAY more strange and wierd and wrong than a singular they when you've only known it as plural.
He/she is the correct way to address such situations. Not making the singular plural.
Incorrect. Words migrate and what you’re posing is archaic. What I posited is the current norm.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Guess what? Norms and language change.
Definition of THEY
those ones : those people, animals, or things; —used to refer to people in a general way or to a group of people who are not specified; —used with a singular indefinite pronoun antecedent… See the full definition
used with a singular antecedent to refer to an unknown or unspecified person
used to refer to a single person whose gender is intentionally not revealed
That was my point but ya’ll wanna focus on the historic use to make your argument. I suspect the current incorrect use will be a flash in the pan.Guess what? Norms and language change.
used with a singular indefinite pronoun antecedentDefinition of THEY
those ones : those people, animals, or things; —used to refer to people in a general way or to a group of people who are not specified; —used with a singular indefinite pronoun antecedent… See the full definitionwww.merriam-webster.com
used with a singular antecedent to refer to an unknown or unspecified person
used to refer to a single person whose gender is intentionally not revealed
McBell
Unbound
Nope.
What you present here is nothing more than your own personal preference.
IF, and that is a mighty big if, the current dictionaries agreed with you, you might have a point.
The problem with your "I posited the current norm" claim is that if it were true, why do current dictionaries still present the archaic definition as the norm?
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
No, I am the correct one, because I say so. And you are wrong, because I say so. I control the world for correct and you are incorrect.
McBell
Unbound
Except you have not shown your claimed incorrect use is based upon anything outside your own personal preference.
I addressed this point in post #31
Either you didn't understand my post, you didn't like the answer.
If it's the former, I'll be glad to clarify. If it's the latter, then take some responsibility for the ambiguous framing of your question.
If you are reading text on a screen from a person and there is no indication of gender of that person either in the context of what they say or in their profile, how do you know you're not misgendering that person by calling them he or she?
You may wish to brush up on your English skills.
Singular they has become the pronoun of choice to replace he and she in cases where the gender of the antecedent – the word the pronoun refers to – is unknown, irrelevant, or nonbinary, or where gender needs to be concealed.
A brief history of singular ‘they’
Again, from the same article.
But that’s nothing new. The Oxford English Dictionary traces singular they back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf. Except for the old-style language of that poem, its use of singular they to refer to an unnamed person seems very modern. Here’s the Middle English version: ‘Hastely hiȝed eche . . . þei neyȝþed so neiȝh . . . þere william & his worþi lef were liand i-fere.’ In modern English, that’s: ‘Each man hurried . . . till they drew near . . . where William and his darling were lying together.’
A brief history of singular ‘they’
Yerda
Veteran Member
Sorry, but you're talking nonsense. This is still common usage.
Reasonableness is not the issue.
If I am unsure of your gender, I might wonder:
Why did libra consider my response to be unreasonable?
but never
Why did they consider my response to be unreasonable?
if only because, in my mind, "they" asserts plurality and people are more than gender. For what little it's worth, while I don't view this as a right/wrong issue, I would have preferred neologisms in the vein of "Latinx."
As I posted earlier, using "they" & "them"
for the singular goes back many centuries.
A brief history of singular ‘they’
"He/she" looks funny because of the
pejorative "he she" name for non-binary
& trans folk.
English language has great depth & history it,
with definitions shifting, expanding, contracting,
& changing all the time. Current use isn't
correct...it's merely how words are used at
the moment.
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Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
You're calling modern dictionary usage incorrect. That puts you in the wrong. Especially with Salix using the OED (it heavily out ranks Miriam Webster).