Jehovah's Witness=Unbiblical Religion!

[muhammad_isa]

God offers us eternal life. God can turn our mortality into immortality.

That is not what the Bible or Qur'an teach.
That is what man THINKS G-d should act like.
i.e. not let anybody suffer in the next life

It is pie in the sky, and does not conform to the reality of the life we find ourselves in.
Either there is life after death, or there isn't. The Bible does not teach it being conditional on being a Christian, atheist or anything else.

You need to reread the Gospels WITHOUT your obvious bias of a "cotton wool G-d", who apparently has different standards of what He allows and doesn't allow, in this life .. and the next life.

 

[YoursTrue]

Why are you going off topic? I've read those books and they would not change a protestants doctrine in any way, so they are irrelevant.

I have not done a complete evaluation of this but I'm sure there is a reason why Protestant Bibles do not include the deuterocanonical books. Do you know why?

 

[YoursTrue]

So you found one Catholic who agreed with you?
Ok then!
Do you want me to quote all the ones who disagree?
Four of the five men on the translation committee producing the complete 1961 edition of the JW Bible had no Hebrew or Greek training whatsoever.
Professor and dean Charles L. Feinberg: “I can assure you that the rendering which the Jehovah’s Witnesses give John 1:1 is not held by any reputable Greek scholar.”

Here's another:
Jesus said to them: ‘Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.’” Because Jehovah’s Witnesses deny the deity and eternality of Jesus, their translators had to change the biblical text to match their doctrines.

Compare the KJV: “Jesus said to them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”

Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that Jesus is the first of Jehovah’s created beings, who then created all “other” things.

The KJV reads: “And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”

The NASB reads: “He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.”

And the HCSB reads: “He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.”

No English translation distorts the true meaning of this verse like the NWT.

In what sense is Jesus before all things?

 

[YoursTrue]

Why are you going off topic? I've read those books and they would not change a protestants doctrine in any way, so they are irrelevant.

Irrelevant? So one poster said the Protestants ripped these books out of the Catholic bible and you say that's irrelevant? To what? Why did they take them out of the Bible canon?

 

[Wildswanderer]

I have not done a complete evaluation of this but I'm sure there is a reason why Protestant Bibles do not include the deuterocanonical books. Do you know why?

Because they are just history books, that had been subject of intense debate from the time of Jesus. They were not considered Scripture by the Jewish people. Much of the early church did not include them either.
Jesus, the Apostles, and the writers of the New Testament never once quote the Apocrypha.
Luther and the Reformers asked the same questions that the early church did about them. The reformers found themselves agreeing with the Jews and many early churchmen, and removed the books.

 

[Wildswanderer]

In what sense is Jesus before all things?

In the sense that he, as one with the Father and spirit created everything that was created.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

We don't know if God is stepping in or not. If the assumption is that God would prevent all wars and death then clearly he isn't.

We’re promised Jehovah God will (Psalms 46:9), but at the time He appoints.— Revelation 11:18.

Once the issue of Sovereignty is satisfactorily resolved.

But even if the entire human race were about to be enslaved, the solution to kill everyone seems like a very bad one and odd one as well.

The apostle Peter called Noah “a preacher”. Those people were warned, but since Jehovah can read hearts, He knew the likelihood of their response. There was enough room for a few to get on board.
But even so, Jehovah has the ability to restore life, i.e., resurrect, so for those who were in fear and heavily influenced, Jehovah will take into consideration too, when the day to resurrect humans comes. - John 6:44

God could have killed all the bad angels and demons and left the humans and animals alone.

Well, the time for their judgement will come at God’s appointed time, and the demons know it. - Matthew 8:29

Letting them live, has served a purpose God has no doubt, probably related to the Sovereignty issue.

Also the Bible doesn't say that God were concerned about humans getting enslaved, but that he didn't like what humans had become and therefore wanted to kill him.

Yes, as Peter said, setting a precedent… God’s patience and tolerance has limits!

Even tho much of the violence in the pre-flood era originated from the demons and their hybrid progeny the Nephilim, both were Jehovah’s enemies; their wicked & violent influence spread to and between humans.

But as I stated, such influences will be removed in God’s due time. When the sovereignty issue is resolved.

Take care.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Professor and dean Charles L. Feinberg: “I can assure you that the rendering which the Jehovah’s Witnesses give John 1:1 is not held by any reputable Greek scholar.”

He’s wrong. I just gave you one, McKenzie was highly acclaimed. If you noticed, his tome “Dictionary of the Bible” had the stamp of Catholic approval, the imprimatur & the nihil obstat.

And here is another….
In his article “Qualitative Anarthrous Predicate Nouns: Mark 15:39 and John 1:1,” Philip B. Harner said that such clauses as the one in John 1:1, “with an anarthrous predicate preceding the verb, are primarily qualitative in meaning. They indicate that the logos has the nature of theos.” He suggests: “Perhaps the clause could be translated, ‘the Word had the same nature as God.’” (Journal of Biblical Literature, 1973, pp. 85, 87) Thus, in this text, the fact that the word the·osʹ in its second occurrence is without the definite article (ho) and is placed before the verb in the sentence in Greek is significant. Interestingly, translators that insist on rendering John 1:1, “The Word was God,” do not hesitate to use the indefinite article (a, an) in their rendering of other passages where a singular anarthrous predicate noun occurs before the verb. Thus at John 6:70, The Jerusalem Bible and King James both refer to Judas Iscariot as “a devil,” and at John 9:17 they describe Jesus as “a prophet.”

Now be honest, which wording agrees with the context? That Jesus is “with God”, and he ‘is God’?

Or that Jesus is “with God and he “is a divine being?”
Especially in context with verse 18, “No one has ever seen God”?

Here's another:
Jesus said to them: ‘Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.’” Because Jehovah’s Witnesses deny the deity and eternality of Jesus, their translators had to change the biblical text to match their doctrines.

Compare the KJV: “Jesus said to them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”

Again, context. I know which makes sense.

At Jesus’ Sanhedrin trial before his murder, the leaders were looking for any kind of evidence to bring against him, but never once did they accuse him of claiming he said he was God!!

That tells any thinking person, that Jesus didn’t say that, in the way many are taught!

true meaning of this verse

There are too many Scriptures that show Jesus’ subservience to his God….my God, his Father Jehovah.

 

[Wildswanderer]

At Jesus’ Sanhedrin trial before his murder, the leaders were looking for any kind of evidence to bring against him, but never once did they accuse him of claiming he said he was God!!

Really?
"Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, 'Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?' And Jesus said, 'I am; and you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.' Tearing his clothes, the high priest said, 'What further need do we have of witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy; how does it seem to you?' And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death. Some began to spit at Him, and to blindfold Him, and to beat Him with their fists, and to say to Him, 'Prophesy!' And the officers received Him with slaps in the face" (Mark 14:55-65).

You know what's consistent in scripture about angels? They always identify themselves, and never allow people to worship them.
Why would it be blasphemy for Jesus if he had claimed to be an angel? They might think he was crazy, but no, the understood that he was putting himself on the same level as God.

 

[YoursTrue]

Even though I disagree with their "my way or the highway" approach, nevertheless they are Christians. Jesus' main teaching was love of God and neighbor, and they do teach that.

Just reading more about Putin and his alliance with the Russian orthodox church. So what about love of neighbor taught in the various churches?

 

[YoursTrue]

Really?
"Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, 'Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?' And Jesus said, 'I am; and you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.' Tearing his clothes, the high priest said, 'What further need do we have of witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy; how does it seem to you?' And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death. Some began to spit at Him, and to blindfold Him, and to beat Him with their fists, and to say to Him, 'Prophesy!' And the officers received Him with slaps in the face" (Mark 14:55-65).

You know what's consistent in scripture about angels? They always identify themselves, and never allow people to worship them.
Why would it be blasphemy for Jesus if he had claimed to be an angel? They might think he was crazy, but no, the understood that he was putting himself on the same level as God.

If I may say, the Sanhedrin was against Jesus. This in reference to what majority opinion of religious things is.

 

[cataway]

You need to take the blinders off and stop following the Bible as your primary rule for faith. Where does the bible say to use the Bible as your primary rule for faith?

Jesus Christ left the early followers with a church. He never said to read the bible. He said to listen to the church. Please take the blinders off!

and do what ?? fallow the paganized church ! it is because the church would rather you dont read the bible that illustrates the ignorance in the church leaders

 

[Spiderman]

and do what ?? fallow the paganized church ! it is because the church would rather you dont read the bible that illustrates the ignorance in the church leaders

I have read the catechism of the Catholic church, and I have read the writings of many protestants, including founders of protestant denominations, and I know a bit about the man who founded the Jehovah's witness denomination as well.

But I can tell you from reading the catechism of the Catholic church, that it has every indication of being more inspired by the Holy Spirit , than any other text I have read, and the Catholic Church knows the scriptures better than any Protestant denomination.

The Bible says "listen to the church." The Bible does not say that everything must be tested by scripture, or that scripture is the final authority, or that God never changes his mind, or that God's word is limited to scripture.

God speaks through the church, and all kinds of people. Every word God speaks through a prophet , is the word of god, and most of the words of Jesus and the prophets, never even got written down.

The Catholic church does not approve of idolatry or pagan worship. Belief that holy souls connected to Jesus christ, ( and we are one body in christ, that we are connected to souls in heaven, and) that they pray for us, bless us, and are concerned about us, is actually biblical.

Even if it wasn't biblical, it is biblical to listen to the church. To believe that everything you believe has to come from the bible, is an unbiblical, man-made, incompatible, incompetent doctrine, that has no support from the scriptures.

People that listen to the Catholic church, are actually doing what Jesus Christ said to do.

Jesus said listen to the church, and "if they do not listen to the church, let them be to you as a pagan or a tax collector".

Jesus never said anything about reading the Bible. Jesus Christ left the early Christians with a church , not a bible.

The Catholic Church knows the Bible inside and out, far better than any Protestant denomination.

If you attend the Catholic mass every single day, (btw, the Catholic mass is celebrated every day), you will hear almost the entire scriptures read to you repeatedly.

Almost the entire catechism, the official teachings of the church, and the magisterium, are based off the scriptures.

When I converted to the Catholic church at age 21, I was encouraged to read the Bible all the time. The Catholic Church repeatedly encourages Catholics to read the scriptures. The Bible is a Catholic book!

Saint Jerome is one of the most important doctors of the Catholic church, one of the most important saints of the Catholic church, and fathers of the Catholic Church, and Saint Jerome says that "ignorance of scripture is ignorance of christ. "

The Catholic Church teaches that ignorance of scripture is ignorance of christ. Your accusation that the Catholic Church wants people to be ignorant of scriptures, is completely false!

 

[YoursTrue]

Really?
"Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, 'Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?' And Jesus said, 'I am; and you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.' Tearing his clothes, the high priest said, 'What further need do we have of witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy; how does it seem to you?' And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death. Some began to spit at Him, and to blindfold Him, and to beat Him with their fists, and to say to Him, 'Prophesy!' And the officers received Him with slaps in the face" (Mark 14:55-65).

You know what's consistent in scripture about angels? They always identify themselves, and never allow people to worship them.
Why would it be blasphemy for Jesus if he had claimed to be an angel? They might think he was crazy, but no, the understood that he was putting himself on the same level as God.

I'm not going to get into translation right now, but remember he did say that God called others god(s), meaning humans Psalm 82. That was part of his defense to the accusation that he was making himself equal to God.

 

[Spiderman]

I'm not going to get into translation right now, but remember he did say that God called others god(s), meaning humans Psalm 82. That was part of his defense to the accusation that he was making himself equal to God.

Finally, you said something that I agree with. Jesus said of people, "know you not, that you are gods".

 

[Brian2]

That is not what the Bible or Qur'an teach.
That is what man THINKS G-d should act like.
i.e. not let anybody suffer in the next life

It is pie in the sky, and does not conform to the reality of the life we find ourselves in.
Either there is life after death, or there isn't. The Bible does not teach it being conditional on being a Christian, atheist or anything else.

You need to reread the Gospels WITHOUT your obvious bias of a "cotton wool G-d", who apparently has different standards of what He allows and doesn't allow, in this life .. and the next life.

It's hard to tell what you are talking about.

 

[Brian2]

I'm not going to get into translation right now, but remember he did say that God called others god(s), meaning humans Psalm 82. That was part of his defense to the accusation that he was making himself equal to God.

In Psalm 82 the one who inherits the nations is YHWH. It Psalm 2 it is the Son who inherits the nations.
Those others called gods are not true gods but the Son is truly YHWH.

 

[YoursTrue]

Finally, you said something that I agree with. Jesus said of people, "know you not, that you are gods".

So? What's your conclusion? Were they gods?

 

[Spiderman]

So? What's your conclusion? Were they gods?

It's possible they were deified to some degree. Paul says, "it is no longer I who live but Christ".

 

[Wildswanderer]

the Catholic Church knows the scriptures better than any Protestant denomination

I seriously doubt that. How many Catholics actually read the Bible themselves?