Jesus and Money

[outhouse]

I haven't really agreed with outhouse for quite some time, but in this case, I would say this is probably the big factor.


In addition to this though, he was teaching something that was familiar anyway. There was the teaching that the love of money was the root of all evil. Jesus is basically expanding on this.

Its much deeper then that in the bible, we are hearing many versions that do not reflect the truth of the matter


jesus had issues with how the sanhedrin and rome were doing buisiness, in the temple he wasnt ticked off due to religion, It was the taxes romans had that was getting to him.

and as stated many believe yeshua knew not just of the kingdom coming but Yeshua knew his time was coming and that what he was doing would probably leed to his death. he knew he had to be a martyr to make a change. he gambled and it paid off.

money has little value to someone who knows his time is limited

 

[waitasec]

money has little value to someone who knows his time is limited

indeed.

 

[Renji]

This thread is about Jesus and money, not the Bible and money. I only wholly trust what Jesus said, so if you're depending on the rest of the Bible for your views on this topic, then we can just agree to disagree since that is a different debate.

But the Bible talks about Jesus???? Why can't I??? Unless, Jesus is saying a different teaching...Besides, you asked me to cite verses....

And still, the point remains, why would God make someone rich if it's really evil.

I don't think money is evil, I think that having money for anything but necessities is a sin when people in the world are starving. And I think that if you have any money or possessions that you don't need in light of this, then you love money too much.

again:

"The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up" (1 Samuel 2:7)

Not necessarily true. But even if you are earning money, you can funnel it directly to the poor, which I believe is in the spirit of what he teaches.

That's exactly what I'm talking about when I said this one:

It's too much desire and greed of material things that Jesus is against, not having those things.

and:

"If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother" Deut 15:7

 

[Renji]

By earning money but not using it for you but mostly using it for poor people.

It is incredibly simple actually, his proposal is nothing of unclear.

You earn money, you only use it for the minimum basic for your survival and everything else you give to the poor. You don´t stop working or earning money, you just keep giving all that you don´t need to the poor.

What I'm just saying is that being rich isn't evil... Give me a break!:faint:

edit: unless you're not using your wealth to help others

 

[Hexavibrongal]

But the Bible talks about Jesus???? Why can't I??? Unless, Jesus is saying a different teaching...Besides, you asked me to cite verses....

You can say whatever you want, but I personally don't think Jesus is just another prophet like all the others -- I think his word trumps everything else. Other parts of the Bible (arguably) tell you to cut off peoples' hands and commit genocide, etc. so I put my faith only in what Jesus said and weigh everything else against that.

And still, the point remains, why would God make someone rich if it's really evil.

That argument is unsound because you can use it against any sin.

 

[no-body]

I don't think he wants us to live in such extreme poverty that we have no food or medicine and therefore we die, or that he wants us not to work. Why would he say to give to the poor if he expected all of us all to live in such extreme poverty that we die? Wouldn't he then just say to destroy your possessions and money? To me it seems like it's all about working towards a general equality, and to me that's very logical.

Well if we where really striving for biblical accuracy the New Testament says we would form religious communes where we would share all our possessions and live solely for the Lord (through socialism)

Another point towards the rich man thing... the richest man then is probably a lot like the poorest person today. So in fact I would say the verse is even more damning no wonder so many so called Christians get so defensive when you quote it :sarcastic:

 

[Thief]

How about....?
you have whatever you want...keep to yourself as you please....
as long as your fellowman does not suffer.

Saw a recent documentary about the money changers in the temple....
and the Carpenter's 'indiscretion' toward them.
There does seem a growing consensus that the Carpenter really hated money.

But money...as a tool...allows trading to be more effective and equitable.
To abandon the practice would deal hardship to all.

I suspect the intent of His teachings was to kick the crutch of security
out from under people who think of themselves more, than those who have not.

 

[Hexavibrongal]

How about....?
you have whatever you want...keep to yourself as you please....
as long as your fellowman does not suffer.

I agree. But currently lots of people are seriously suffering, so right now you can't have whatever you want without others suffering.

But money...as a tool...allows trading to be more effective and equitable.
To abandon the practice would deal hardship to all.

I don't think he hates money. If he were against money itself then I think he would have said that. He doesn't say to destroy money or to destroy your possessions if you're wealthy, he says to sell your things and give to the poor. To me this suggestions an equalization of wealth -- to make it so there are no more rich or poor. But considering how disproportionate wealth distribution in the world is right now, we've got a lot of money to shift around.

 

[Thief]

I agree. But currently lots of people are seriously suffering, so right now you can't have whatever you want without others suffering.



I don't think he hates money. If he were against money itself then I think he would have said that. He doesn't say to destroy money or to destroy your possessions if you're wealthy, he says to sell your things and give to the poor. To me this suggestions an equalization of wealth -- to make it so there are no more rich or poor. But considering how disproportionate wealth distribution in the world is right now, we've got a lot of money to shift around.

It seems we agree.

But can you imagine the economic shift?
It would have been easier to do...in those days as the Carpenter walked.
Had His teachings taken hold then, and continued to this day....
this world would be greatly different.

As is, I suspect the rich will get richer, and the poor will sicken and die.

Eventually, the current system will simply fall in on itself.

 

[outhouse]

I agree. But currently lots of people are seriously suffering, so right now you can't have whatever you want without others suffering.

No deity has ever done anything to stop mankinds suffering.

Only man helps other men.

he says to sell your things and give to the poor.

No he doesnt say it in that context.

not only that your hearing that third or fourth hand and not exactly from yeshua

To me this suggestions an equalization of wealth

Ya even Yashua knew that wasnt going to happen. And he or his followers never preached it.

But considering how disproportionate wealth distribution in the world is right now, we've got a lot of money to shift around.

You want to give? thats great. just make sure your saving away for rainy days.

Tea party again?? yeshua did it, americas foundng fathers did it, It could very well be time again.

 

[Hexavibrongal]

No he doesnt say it in that context.

What do you mean? He says that almost word for word.

 

[outhouse]

What do you mean? He says that almost word for word.

who is he talking to and what was he saying before hand??

and who really said that? what gospel author ?

 

[Hexavibrongal]

But can you imagine the economic shift?
It would have been easier to do...in those days as the Carpenter walked.
Had His teachings taken hold then, and continued to this day....
this world would be greatly different.

I tend to think that the problems it would create would be much less serious than the problems created by not doing it. I don't know if it will ever happen, but I don't think we should give up.

 

[Hexavibrongal]

who is he talking to and what was he saying before hand??

and who really said that? what gospel author ?

Jesus says it to a man and to a crowd. It's in Matthew and Luke. The verses have already been posted in this thread and can easily be found on Google.

 

[outhouse]

Jesus says it to a man and to a crowd. It's in Matthew and Luke. The verses have already been posted in this thread and can easily be found on Google.

go back and read luke 12-1

your missing the whole context

[ he began to say unto his disciples first of all ]


yeshuas disciples were to give up all their possessions, some verses even say their staff and begging bowl should be left behind.


we know for a fact the crowds written in were done so to fabricate a large following. There were not that many people living in that area of Gallilee

 

[bigbadgirl]

Can someone explain to me where Jesus, in his own words, tells people they must pay money to the church. And what church is it?

 

[outhouse]

Can someone explain to me where Jesus, in his own words, tells people they must pay money to the church. And what church is it?

in jesus time the temple charged tax

he did make a statement according to unknown authors who never knew him that we shoud pay unto ceaser what is his.

They were writing to a roman audience though so many are not to sure about the historical accuracy

 

[bigbadgirl]

I don't think I am going to get a historically accurate answer to my question. Can someone else state where Jesus mandates that people should pay money to the church. And what church should it be? Jesus, not anyone one else.

 

[Prophet]

in jesus time the temple charged tax

he did make a statement according to unknown authors who never knew him that we shoud pay unto ceaser what is his.

They were writing to a roman audience though so many are not to sure about the historical accuracy

There are many verses in the Bible which I believe were tampered with, but Jesus always taught non-resistance. In dealing with individuals, Jesus said to not resist an evil person and to go the extra mile to selflessly serve them. It makes perfect sense that the same rule of non-resistance applies to oppressive rulers and their laws.

 

[Straw Dog]

My question is: how do Christians manage to (apparently) ignore what Jesus said about money: "sell all your possessions and give your money to the poor", "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God", "Do not accumulate treasures on earth where moth and rust corrupt", "...you cannot serve God and money." I've heard that money was one of the things he mentioned most frequently.

I certainly understand that it's not so simple to just give away everything. But too many Christians I meet seem to have given up and are slowly accumulating more money and possessions thinking that it's okay as long as it's not "out of control". And consider that I live in America where even the very poor with adjustments for cost of living still have more money than 60%-70% of the rest of the world, and many people I've met in church must be in the top 1% of the world as far as income!

Personally, I've found that if you work on the money issue through prayer and meditation, you'll gradually be able to peel away your money and possessions without missing them. I'm a long way from being where I want to be with money, but I have cut my spending substantially by cooking simple healthy food at home, avoiding buying gadgets or things I don't need, selling quite a bit of my stuff that I don't need each time I move, buying clothes almost exclusively from thrift stores, learning to cut my own hair, etc. It took me a long time to be comfortable with this, but now I wouldn't have it any other way.

Does anyone disagree that Jesus would have advocated a voluntary redistribution of wealth towards those vulnerable to starvation and poverty? That is, outside the coercion of political and military powers, every capable individual possessing excessive wealth beyond that necessary for basic comfortable living should redirect their extensive funds towards the truly needy under a basic sense of self-transcendence?