-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Jesus came and what???
- Thread starter BIG D
- Start date
theirreverentconcubine
Member
There's no telling. The movie Zeitgeist has a lot of fluff, but the "victory of the sun" is an interesting postulate. And I've heard that about Horus, but an "elect of Set" ain't gonna be crediting him with nothing, now is she?
waitasec
Veteran Member
There's no telling. The movie Zeitgeist has a lot of fluff, but the "victory of the sun" is an interesting postulate. And I've heard that about Horus, but an "elect of Set" ain't gonna be crediting him with nothing, now is she?
I suppose not if you take the "mythology" literally. If you believe Horus and Set actually fought, I suppose you are right.
theirreverentconcubine
Member
There we go. Happy Mithra's Day! It's a reason to drink.
(Judith Murphy is Irish, after all.
)
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
You don't get it? The world is just a little better with all the fiery mind twisting chaos and now carolers caroling. Carols sort of drown out all the cries for help and screams of despair.
Then you may not like Rammstein. The difference being, the supermarket does not crank the Remmstein.
How could you know what I like and what I don't like?
Christmas is evil. People giving to those in need is evil. People giving their children gifts is evil. Christmas music is evil. Giving holiday greetings is evil, especially Christmas greetings. Christmas trees are evil. Santa Claus is evil.
You guys ought to really think about what you're saying. You all sound like Ebenezer Scrooge to the rest of us- not that you care.
BTW: Christmas isn't necessarily a religious holiday. Deck the Halls is not about Jesus. Jingle Bells is not about Jesus. O Christmas Tree(O Tannenbaum) is not about Jesus. Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer is not about Jesus. Decorating a tree is not about Jesus. Santa Claus is not about Jesus.
And to the person who thinks I only listen to popular music- I don't. I listen to Classical, world, New Age, and so on, as well. I was rather taken back by your assumption. But no offense was taken.
You guys ought to really think about what you're saying. You all sound like Ebenezer Scrooge to the rest of us- not that you care.
BTW: Christmas isn't necessarily a religious holiday. Deck the Halls is not about Jesus. Jingle Bells is not about Jesus. O Christmas Tree(O Tannenbaum) is not about Jesus. Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer is not about Jesus. Decorating a tree is not about Jesus. Santa Claus is not about Jesus.
And to the person who thinks I only listen to popular music- I don't. I listen to Classical, world, New Age, and so on, as well. I was rather taken back by your assumption.
But no offense was taken.roger_pearse
Member
Good catch. There's no "birthday of Mithras" recorded in any ancient source whatsoever.
The 25 Dec. thing you're thinking of is the state sun god, Sol Invictus. There was a festival on that date, documented in the Chronography of 354 (i.e. well after Constantine) called the "dies natalis solis invicti", which may mean either "anniversary of the consecration of the temple of Sol Invictus" or "birthday of the unconquered sun / Sol Invictus". If it means the former, it probably records the founding of the temple of Sol Invictus by Aurelian in 274. If it means the latter -- these are mutually exclusive alternatives, note -- then it relates to the solstice, and indicates the "new sun", the days getting longer. The solstice was actually on 21/22, but, as Julian the Apostate indicates (ca. 361 AD), most people regarded 25th as the solstice. Julian "explains" this by the fact that the farmers notice the days getting longer only after a day or two.
Christmas is not on the date of the big Roman winter festival, tho; that was Saturnalia, from 17-23rd December.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
cablescavenger
Well-Known Member
:no:
It was far more dangerous then than it is now.
I wouldn't credit Jesus for it mind.
In the book 'The Battle for Christmas' by Stephen Nissenbaum mentions the Christmas observances were about mid-winter worship of Saturn and Bacchus.
Francis Stead Sellers in the New York Times review mentioned that a 4th century pact was made with the pagans when it settled on the Dec 25th date.
In the New Encyclopedia Britannica Dec 25th is called the birthday of Mithra, the Iranian god of light and....the day devoted to the invincible sun [Not Son]
as well as the day 'after' the Saturnalia......
In the magazine History Today Alexander Murray of Oxford University mentions a fusing of pagan mid-winter rites ......After much uncertainty, victory would go to Mithraism's main rival, Christianity.
According to the book 'Discovering Christmas customs and Folklore'
Dec 25 was a shrewd and practical decision.
The 7-day Roman agricultural festival of fire and light: Saturnalia,
and the Calends had a 3-day celebration feast .
With Saturnalia, Calends and the Mithraic birthday of the unconquered sun
[Not Son], all fell within so short a period each year that Dec. 25th became the chosen date. Not until 274 CE the Roman emperor declared Sol invictus [unconquered sun] the principle patron of the empire honoring MIthras...
Last edited:
The first observance as Christmas being Jesus birth was over 300 years after Jesus birth. When so-called Christianity became the state religion researchers concluded those 'Christians' set Jesus birth date as 12/25.
That made it easy to coincide with the existing celebrating by non-Christians.
University of Utah Prof. Russel Belk said rather than battle against the pagan holidays, they decided to join them.....The pagan was replaced by Christian.
Roman celebrations of Saturnallia which were carnivalesque celebrations with gift-giving, and later Yule celebrations in England and Germany that celebrated the winter solstice.
Puritans objected, but Belk credits Dickens 1843 'A Christmas Carol' for a revival.
Some employers after reading Dickens added an annual turkey for employees.
The feasting and merrymaking of the modern Christmas traces to the ancient Saturnalia.
John Mosley author of the book 'The Christmas Star' mentions Northern Europeans celebrated the solstice in the forest: they worshiped trees.
The 'green' to symbolize life, and the lights on the tree recalls the sun and symbolizes the sun [Balder]. Rebirth of the sun and return of light after the solstice.
From a 'Victorian Charles Dickens Christmas' scene some have credited the movies 'Holiday Inn' and 'White Christmas' for the more modern 'Currier and Ives' Christmas decor.
So, what we have are pagan root celebrations masquerading or parading around as the birthday of Jesus.
bigbadgirl
Active Member
There is no historical evidence that Jesus ever lived or died.
theirreverentconcubine
Member
And to the person who thinks I only listen to popular music- I don't. I listen to Classical, world, New Age, and so on, as well. I was rather taken back by your assumption.
Sure was a lot of writing for no offense being taken, especially since there was a may in there. But you go right on being non-offended, and I'll go right on being atheistic about it.
outhouse
Atheistically
There is evidence he lived.
most scholars do think there was a historical yashus/jesus
Its almost certain there was a traveling teacher of judaism that was baptized by john who ticked of the romans and was quickly put to death on a cross.
The whole post wasn't just about you
But I am glad you think so highly of yourself. Edit: Most of my post wasn't about being offended. I don't know why people would assume that. I was just pointing out that Christmas wasn't necessarily a religious holiday- there was no offense at all (on my part). I was a little irritated that someone assumed what kind of music I listen to without even knowing me- it is a pet peeve of mine. Next time, don't assume things- it irritates we mortal beings.
Last edited:
roger_pearse
Member
Evidently not a man who knows much history.
Does he give an ancient source for this claim? No...?
Hearsay is poisonous.
Unfortunately none of this is true. Where did you get this from?
Again, clearly a man who doesn't know the facts.
Well, lots of hearsay there. Got any ancient sources for any of the claims made?
Sorry mate, but all this is rubbish. You could have multiplied these "authorities" a thousand-fold, and none of it would have been worth anything. There is endless crap in circulation about Mithras, and all of it bunk. If you want real information about Mithras, you have to go to a modern Mithras scholar, not some journalist scribbling in a magazine, or even a non-specialist scholar writing out of field.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
Blackdog22
Well-Known Member
What I don't get is Christians who claim Jesus is the new Adam and had to die and be sacrificed since the old Adam failed. Firstly, I don't get why he HAD to be sacrificed because that isn't a rule I would make if I was an all powerful rule, but ignoring that.
I don't understand how Jesus died for our sins. Adam sinned and it manifested with dying, pain in childbirth, snakes have to eat dirt, men have to work for their food, and some other things. If Jesus died for our sin and our death is a manifestation of sin then why do Christians still die?
I will never understand how Jesus did anything to conquer original sin or how he thwarted any of Satans plans. Satan seems to be getting along pretty well.
terryboy
Member
If Jesus never come, the Romans wouldn't have changed their religion to Christianity. World history would have changed. Jesus came and this is what we have today.
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34