-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Jesus did not die on the Cross
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
Was there something wrong with the quote I provided in the post you responded to?
Muffled
Jesus in me
I don't believe this has been proven even though I am sure you have argued it in another thread, I did not find your arguments cogent.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe photos were not available at the time. However God was there and He is here now.
Muffled
Jesus in me
That is not what the Bible says happened so it must be a fabrication.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Jesus did not die on the Cross
I give Fifth Argument from the Christian scripture.
God always hears Jesus prayers and Jesus prayers were heard
And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I think thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always. (John 11:41-42)
Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared. (Hebrews 5:7)
G-d heard Jesus prayers and saved him death on the Cross.
The creed that "Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross" is a fabrication of Paul, the Church and their associates and has got nothing to do with Jesus and his teachings.
Regards
I give Fifth Argument from the Christian scripture.
God always hears Jesus prayers and Jesus prayers were heard
And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I think thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always. (John 11:41-42)
Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared. (Hebrews 5:7)
G-d heard Jesus prayers and saved him death on the Cross.
The creed that "Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross" is a fabrication of Paul, the Church and their associates and has got nothing to do with Jesus and his teachings.
Regards
Jesus said it would happen. I don't know the point of picking out certain parts of the Bible to prove something and ignoring others.
Understand I would happily do the same but it becomes a matter arbitrary bias to prove what you want to believe. No real validation required.
outhouse
Atheistically
You show obvious known bias.
Show me where baby jesus goes to Egypt in Luke.
because it states he did not go
mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
You rely on Wikipedia to explain the Gospel and that is not true
It is necessary to rely on the book we can get it
Explained in posts, 226, 229, 230, 225, 224
Our faith in the Gospel as is, without any falsification
I said that the novel was written by I without details and written in greater detail and more inclusive
This is not a contradiction
I ask you to be neutral in your situation
outhouse
Atheistically
Not credible sorry.
mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
Thanks-
Do you think I lie in the question our faith in the Gospel
In the matter of birth and cross
I offer you the Christian faith and Christian interpretation
Yes in one of the Gospels speak of Jesus to mrimomahm Egypt trip
And the other Gospel yitklm the detail
This does not mean contradiction
We are a Christian
We say
The Gospel is written four people
They wrote what they have heard and what they saw and that each of them wrote the literary style of the acts and sayings of Jesus and also wrote about the life of Jesus which was observed from others
Have you heard how credibility
Therefore this is not a weak point in Christianity because truth is a virtue
If your source says other than the type you
But you depend on sources is not honest, this disadvantage is not who we are, but in the way you look
Christ's Prophet
Member
The first proof that Jesus Christ was dead and risen is this, that Jesus knew that He would die and rise from the dead:-
John 2:19:- John 2:19-22 (KJV)
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
A Second Proof is this that of the empty tomb, even when the tomb was under close guard by soldiers to prevent interference:-
John 20:4:- John 20:4-9 (KJV)
4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.
6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
A third proof is this, that He was seen alive by up to 500 people at any one time, see Luke 24:36:-
Luke 24:36-44 (KJV)
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
A fourth proof is that the disciples were changed beyond belief. Before they had been frightened to death of the authorities, but now they had witnessed the resurrection, they were no longer afraid of death, see Acts Chapter 2.
The resurrection is central to Christianity. In it we have the sure hope of eternal life by the Author of Creation. No other religion comes anywhere near to this reality.
Albert Brownsey
Certainty for eternity
John 2:19:- John 2:19-22 (KJV)
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
A Second Proof is this that of the empty tomb, even when the tomb was under close guard by soldiers to prevent interference:-
John 20:4:- John 20:4-9 (KJV)
4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.
6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
A third proof is this, that He was seen alive by up to 500 people at any one time, see Luke 24:36:-
Luke 24:36-44 (KJV)
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
A fourth proof is that the disciples were changed beyond belief. Before they had been frightened to death of the authorities, but now they had witnessed the resurrection, they were no longer afraid of death, see Acts Chapter 2.
The resurrection is central to Christianity. In it we have the sure hope of eternal life by the Author of Creation. No other religion comes anywhere near to this reality.
Albert Brownsey
Certainty for eternity
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
Their ears and don't they hear
They have eyes but do not see blind
The words of Christ
My gift to you
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
paarsurrey,
It's quite clear that you don't want to believe that Jesus was crucified. You don't want to believe that he died, and you don't want to believe that he was resurrected.
I would like you to explain what you do believe about Jesus and his ministry on earth. What do you think he came to do?
It's quite clear that you don't want to believe that Jesus was crucified. You don't want to believe that he died, and you don't want to believe that he was resurrected.
I would like you to explain what you do believe about Jesus and his ministry on earth. What do you think he came to do?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
The issue is not what I want to believe; the issue is that Jesus never died on the Cross, therefore, there was no resurrection from the dead and hence no ascension of Jesus to skies.
Jesus was sent by G-d with a Message from him like so many other prophets/messenger were sent; to promote virtue , to eradicate evil and to tell people to believe in G-d.
Regards
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
paarsurrey,
You have been provided with ample evidence that Jesus DID die.
God's prophets from the Old Testament said he would die.
Jesus himself said he would die.
And to deny God's prophets is to deny God!
Non Christian historians say he was crucified (Tacitus, for example)
The disciples who witnessed the event say he died.
Christians today testify to the resurrection, and to the indwelling Holy Spirit. This is not a reality without the death of the testator.
On all counts there can only be one rational conclusion. Jesus died after being crucified.
It should be making you think a bit more critically about Muhammad as a prophet of God. Blind acceptance of a so-called prophecy that fails to fit with all the prophets that went before is leading you to twist and distort the truth to fit one man's word.
Jesus can be trusted because he was sinless. Muhammad clearly did sin, and his word should examined very critically.
What has Muhammad brought to this world that in any sense supersedes the message and life of Jesus? Law and grace existed before Muhammad. What else does he have to offer?
You have been provided with ample evidence that Jesus DID die.
God's prophets from the Old Testament said he would die.
Jesus himself said he would die.
And to deny God's prophets is to deny God!
Non Christian historians say he was crucified (Tacitus, for example)
The disciples who witnessed the event say he died.
Christians today testify to the resurrection, and to the indwelling Holy Spirit. This is not a reality without the death of the testator.
On all counts there can only be one rational conclusion. Jesus died after being crucified.
It should be making you think a bit more critically about Muhammad as a prophet of God. Blind acceptance of a so-called prophecy that fails to fit with all the prophets that went before is leading you to twist and distort the truth to fit one man's word.
Jesus can be trusted because he was sinless. Muhammad clearly did sin, and his word should examined very critically.
What has Muhammad brought to this world that in any sense supersedes the message and life of Jesus? Law and grace existed before Muhammad. What else does he have to offer?
outhouse
Atheistically
yes it is your belief and you have not debated or provided any evidence in support of your imagination.
you just keep proselytizing garbage
Jesus has historicity as being crucified. It is in every encyclopedia as fact.
Historical Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Despite divergent scholarly opinions on the construction of portraits of the historical Jesus, almost all modern scholars consider his baptism and crucifixion to be historical facts
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
paarsurrey, you say that Jesus was sent into the world to tell people to believe in God, but you clearly don't believe his prophetic word!
Albert quoted a passage from John 2:19-22 which clearly shows that Jesus knew he would die and be raised to life after three days. Are you ignoring these words? These words were not added to scripture erroneously. They dovetail into every other scripture beautifully. The scripture is unbroken.
If you don't believe the words of Jesus then you reject the whole of scripture. You cannot just pick out the little bits of scripture you like and ignore the bits you don't like. If it's scripture then you must accept it all or reject it all. That's why the Qur'an and Bible cannot exist together. But make your choice carefully!
Wherefore, my beloved, ....work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.' (Philippians 2:12)
Albert quoted a passage from John 2:19-22 which clearly shows that Jesus knew he would die and be raised to life after three days. Are you ignoring these words? These words were not added to scripture erroneously. They dovetail into every other scripture beautifully. The scripture is unbroken.
If you don't believe the words of Jesus then you reject the whole of scripture. You cannot just pick out the little bits of scripture you like and ignore the bits you don't like. If it's scripture then you must accept it all or reject it all. That's why the Qur'an and Bible cannot exist together. But make your choice carefully!
Wherefore, my beloved, ....work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.' (Philippians 2:12)