Jesus did not die on the Cross

[paarsurrey]

Jesus did not die on the Cross


I give Sixth Argument from the Christian scriptures.

Who wanted Jesus to be crucified?

If Jesus came to be crucified to death for the sins of the Christians as they believe, then:

1. Jesus should have volunteered for death on the Cross with express words and gestures.
2. The Christians should have demanded it from Jesus.

This never happened.
It was the Jews who demanded it as per NT; but G-d saved his life:

And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. (Luke 24:20)

They all say unto him, Let him be crucified. And the Governor said what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying Let him be crucified…. Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. (Matt 27: 22-25)

So Jesus did not want to be crucified till death; he was forced on to it by the Jews.

The creed that "Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross" is a fabrication of Paul, the Church and their associates and has got nothing to do with Jesus and his teachings.

Regards

 

[Redemptionsong]

paarsurrey, you're overlooking an important scripture. In 1 Corinthians 2:7,8, we are told this:
'But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.'

This is not an easy passage, but it means that the powers of darkness killed Jesus Christ, thinking it would rid them of God's light. But it was always in God's plan to allow his son to die, for only through death could a just redemption be achieved. The Body of Christ (the 'mystery' Church) would not have been born at Pentecost had Jesus Christ not died and been raised to life again.

Jesus could not have volunteered this information without the adversary realising that it would end in his own destruction! The powers of darkness would not have crucified Jesus if they had known the outcome.

 

[Redemptionsong]

paarsurrey, Jesus didn't want to be crucified. It's a painful, agonising, way to die. But he went through it in obedience to his Father's will and out of pure love for YOU and ME!!
Think on it!

 

[outhouse]

Jesus did not die on the Cross


I give Sixth Argument from the Christian scriptures.

Who wanted Jesus to be crucified?

If Jesus came to be crucified to death for the sins of the Christians as they believe, then:

1. Jesus should have volunteered for death on the Cross with express words and gestures.
2. The Christians should have demanded it from Jesus.

This never happened.
It was the Jews who demanded it as per NT; but G-d saved his life:




So Jesus did not want to be crucified till death; he was forced on to it by the Jews.

The creed that "Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross" is a fabrication of Paul, the Church and their associates and has got nothing to do with Jesus and his teachings.

Regards

you just keep proselytizing garbage


Jesus has historicity as being crucified. It is in every encyclopedia as fact.



Historical Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Despite divergent scholarly opinions on the construction of portraits of the historical Jesus, almost all modern scholars consider his baptism and crucifixion to be historical facts

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey, Jesus didn't want to be crucified. It's a painful, agonising, way to die. But he went through it in obedience to his Father's will and out of pure love for YOU and ME!!
Think on it!

That is an afterthought of the Christians. Jesus never wanted to die on the Cross.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey, you're overlooking an important scripture. In 1 Corinthians 2:7,8, we are told this:
'But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.'

This is not an easy passage, but it means that the powers of darkness killed Jesus Christ, thinking it would rid them of God's light. But it was always in God's plan to allow his son to die, for only through death could a just redemption be achieved. The Body of Christ (the 'mystery' Church) would not have been born at Pentecost had Jesus Christ not died and been raised to life again.

Jesus could not have volunteered this information without the adversary realising that it would end in his own destruction! The powers of darkness would not have crucified Jesus if they had known the outcome.

There is/was no mystery. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 has crashed this bubble of mystery.

Regards

 

[outhouse]

There is/was no mystery. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 has crashed this bubble of mystery.

Regards

you just keep proselytizing garbage


Jesus has historicity as being crucified. It is in every encyclopedia as fact.



Historical Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Despite divergent scholarly opinions on the construction of portraits of the historical Jesus, almost all modern scholars consider his baptism and crucifixion to be historical facts

 

[paarsurrey]

you just keep proselytizing garbage


Jesus has historicity as being crucified. It is in every encyclopedia as fact.



Historical Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Despite divergent scholarly opinions on the construction of portraits of the historical Jesus, almost all modern scholars consider his baptism and crucifixion to be historical facts

The majority viewpoint* among both historians[4][5] and biblical scholars “that he was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate”

Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Not 100% sure.

They only mentions that Jesus was put on the Cross; not that Jesus was certified dead by the physicians and then delivered from it.

Regards

 

[Redemptionsong]

paarsurrey, are you a follower of this man Mirza Ghulam Ahmad?
If so, you follow a false Messiah. Were you not aware that the real Messiah has to be of the House of Judah, and a descendant of King David?

 

[Redemptionsong]

paarsurrey, may I also point out that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad cannot have understood the 'mystery' of the Church. In fact, the mystery of the Church, or body of Christ, was only revealed through the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:10), and since Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was not born again of God's spirit through faith in Jesus Christ, it's quite clear he had no idea what he was talking about!!

 

[outhouse]

*Not 100% sure.

They only mentions that Jesus was put on the Cross; not that Jesus was certified dead by the physicians and then delivered from it.

Regards

you just keep proselytizing garbage


Jesus has historicity as being crucified. It is in every encyclopedia as fact.



Historical Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Despite divergent scholarly opinions on the construction of portraits of the historical Jesus, almost all modern scholars consider his baptism and crucifixion to be historical facts

 

[paarsurrey]

It is in the history that not everybody who was put on the Cross died on the Cross. There were persons who survived.

Did it happen?

Regards

 

[outhouse]

It is in the history that not everybody who was put on the Cross died on the Cross. There were persons who survived.

The only know examples are because Josephus asked them to be taken down. No one is known to have taken down a living jesus. No credible word anywhere states that.


And quit trying to use logic and reason, because you avoid it and cherry pick it.

it is fact as a historical fact can be that he was crucified. You have no examples. YOU HAVE NO CREDIBLE SOURCES

you just keep proselytizing garbage


Jesus has historicity as being crucified. It is in every encyclopedia as fact.



Historical Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Despite divergent scholarly opinions on the construction of portraits of the historical Jesus, almost all modern scholars consider his baptism and crucifixion to be historical facts

 

[paarsurrey]

Quran supports me that Jesus was put on the Cross but was not killed of Crucifixion:

[4:158] And their saying, ‘We did kill the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah;’ whereas they slew him not, nor crucified him, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified; and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it; they have no definite knowledge thereof, but only follow a conjecture; and they did not convert this conjecture into a certainty;

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Detailed English Commentary

The Holy Quran

 

[outhouse]

Quran supports me that Jesus was put on the Cross but was not killed of Crucifixion:

Its not a history book by your own words, and thus has no credibility at all for anything related to Jesus.


you just keep proselytizing garbage


Jesus has historicity as being crucified. It is in every encyclopedia as fact.



Historical Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Despite divergent scholarly opinions on the construction of portraits of the historical Jesus, almost all modern scholars consider his baptism and crucifixion to be historical facts

 

[steeltoes]

Its not a history book by your own words, and thus has no credibility at all for anything related to Jesus.


you just keep proselytizing garbage


Jesus has historicity as being crucified. It is in every encyclopedia as fact.



Historical Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Despite divergent scholarly opinions on the construction of portraits of the historical Jesus, almost all modern scholars consider his baptism and crucifixion to be historical facts

Of course they do, they're Christians. Could a billion flies be wrong?

 

[outhouse]

Of course they do, they're Christians. Could a billion flies be wrong?

scholars are not all Christians

your always in error due to your bias.

 

[steeltoes]

scholars are not all Christians

your always in error due to your bias.

The vast majority of them are. You simply believe because others believe.

 

[outhouse]

The vast majority of them are. You simply believe because others believe.

Some are, but they are not judged by their personal beliefs. They are judged by their unbiased work and have credibility you do not.


They are as educated as anyone can be, while you remain willfully ignorant.


No secular sources condemn their work, only you in error

 

[steeltoes]

Some are, but they are not judged by their personal beliefs. They are judged by their unbiased work and have credibility you do not.


They are as educated as anyone can be, while you remain willfully ignorant.


No secular sources condemn their work, only you in error

So you believe and take it personal, and anyone that doesn't believe as you do is ignorant, we get that.