Jesus Died For Us?

[lilithu]

Again you are wrong, this story does not "praise intelligence" as an entity, it glorifies the wisdom of a supposed Jesus at an early age, the only story told about a supposed Jesus BTW before age 30, which is another reason why it must be a fabrication. Again wisdom (knowledge combined with experience) is not the same as pure intelligence.

Again, whether or not it is a "fabrication" is utterly irrelevant to this particular argument. As a "logician" you should understand that. And are you actually claiming that wisdom has nothing to do with intelligence? Like I said, weak.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I can offer my POV on Christ dying for us: I am in awe.

As a practicing Tibetan Buddhist, I see him as the bodhisattva who gave his life with the practice of tonglen.

And for him to offer selflessly to take the sufferings of all of humanity past and present, and to offer himself completely in love, kindness, and forgiveness is a motivation and action that I respect wholeheartedly. This is - ultimately - the path of the bodhisattva, and Jesus Christ did just that.

 

[Dunemeister]

Again you are wrong, this story does not "praise intelligence" as an entity, it glorifies the wisdom of a supposed Jesus at an early age, the only story told about a supposed Jesus BTW before age 30, which is another reason why it must be a fabrication. Again wisdom (knowledge combined with experience) is not the same as pure intelligence.

How does the fact that it's the only story cited about his adolescent life mean it MUST be a fabrication? Better pull up your pants, your bias is showing.

 

[lilithu]

I can offer my POV on Christ dying for us: I am in awe.

As a practicing Tibetan Buddhist, I see him as the bodhisattva who gave his life with the practice of tonglen.

And for him to offer selflessly to take the sufferings of all of humanity past and present, and to offer himself completely in love, kindness, and forgiveness is a motivation and action that I respect wholeheartedly. This is - ultimately - the path of the bodhisattva, and Jesus Christ did just that.

You are so awesome. :hug:

 

[logician]

Again, whether or not it is a "fabrication" is utterly irrelevant to this particular argument. As a "logician" you should understand that. And are you actually claiming that wisdom has nothing to do with intelligence? Like I said, weak.

Sorry, but your argument is baseless, this scripture is simply not praise of intelligence.

 

[logician]

How does the fact that it's the only story cited about his adolescent life mean it MUST be a fabrication? Better pull up your pants, your bias is showing.

Give me a break, pulling one story out of a hat to cover the entire lifetime of the supposed Jesus before the age of 30? LOL

Is there any independant historical documentation of this event? If not, it has no more historical veracity than stories told about any other gods.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Jesus did'nt die at all.God saved him from an ugly death.Read the Bible and you will get the answers.

And you obviously came up with this inane statement from reading the Bible?

 

[Dunemeister]

Give me a break, pulling one story out of a hat to cover the entire lifetime of the supposed Jesus before the age of 30? LOL

Is there any independant historical documentation of this event? If not, it has no more historical veracity than stories told about any other gods.

Your inability (unwillingness?) to understand how ancient historiography works never fails to inspire me with awe.

 

[Dunemeister]

Sorry, but your argument is baseless, this scripture is simply not praise of intelligence.

Actually, liluthu's argument's pretty good. The religious leaders were praising Jesus' learning and acumen. If that's not intelligence, then words have lost all meaning.

You may still eke out a pyrrhic victory by saying that at best this passage praises Jesus' intelligence but not intelligence generally.

 

[crystalonyx]

Your inability (unwillingness?) to understand how ancient historiography works never fails to inspire me with awe.

Please explain how this works, we're all waiting with baited breath.

 

[Muffled]

Why Jesus died for us?
Well, GOD, creator of the Universe, sustainer of all Life and almighty Judge died. That's a big deal. Because of His infinite sacrafice, all sins , past, present and future have been paid for, if we only ask. It is only because He died, we have the opportunity to live forever. If He didn't die, then all things would be in vain. Therefore, His death is the main emphasis.
In Catholic Liturgy we say "Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again" during the Eucharist prayer to acknowledge the grace available in all these acts of God.

This sounds reasonable on the surface, however the theory of substitutionary atonement doesn't reflect the reality. If you jump off the Golden Gate Bridge chances are exceptionally good that you will be dead and no payment by Jesus on the cross can make you alive again. All sin has its consequences. The cross sends that message that the wages of sin is death.

The good news (Gospel) is that Jesus will save you from your sin if you receive Him as Lord and Savior and that your sin is forgiven.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus knew he was to be a sacrifice for our enlightenment. like osiris before him and many others. He understood this concept. He also knew it to be a correct one.

A sacrifice is not required for our enlightenment. Moses brought us enlightenment but he didn't need to die for us to do it.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Jesus knew he was to be a sacrifice for our enlightenment. like osiris before him and many others. He understood this concept. He also knew it to be a correct one.

Did you just make this up? It is certainly not a Biblical concept.

 

[rcscwc]

Baha`i accept Krshna as a Manifestation of God, and propose Baha`u'llah as the Kalki Av atar.

Regards,
Scott

But Hindus do not accept any one as Lord Kalki who is yet to come. They do not recognise Bahaiullah in any capacity.

How can you claim that Bahaiullah is Kalki when he called the concept of Incarnates silly and false?

 

[logician]

Jesus did not exist, but even if he did, he did not die for me, or anyone else.

 

[ayani]

Can someone walk me through this whole concept?

If he died for us, why couldn't he lives for us instead?

you raise a wonderful point- why couldn't He just live for us?

a Christian would answer that He did, and does. because of His resurrection from the dead, He lives now, and forever. and because He lives, whoever believes in and belongs to Him will live, too.

His death wouldn't have done much to defeat death if He'd remained dead. but it's through His resurrection from the dead that death is defeated, in Himself, and for us.

one can't be raised from the dead unless one first dies. so a Christian would answer that He both died for us, and lives now for us, that through Him (the Living Messiah) we too can have life.

 

[e2ekiel]

From a Muslim perspective, God does not need anybody to die for our sins

He forgives directly to those who repent, as He is a Merciful and forgiving God

But do you have certainty that upon your death that Allah will be merciful to you?

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

What a bizarre and morbid gift to come the think of it. Jesus died for us! I would rather he would have done something far productive by living instead.