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Jesus Died For Us?

logician

logician

Well-Known Member
zoe and vic said:
"And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast. And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it. But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance. And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him. And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers."
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This story is an obvious fabrication.
 
MEMNOCK

MEMNOCK

Spiritual Tour Guide
zoe and vic said:
Hey Memnock,

You cannot even see the kingdom of God unless you are born again. God is not theology, that's the doctrines of man concerning His Word. And the true God, and eternal life is Jesus Christ, and if you believe God's Word He will show you how to live in God's unlimited grace. It's fascinating to me that reading the book on Calculus does not teach everyone immediately how to perform it, but in a year of study you can come close to teaching the class if you are diligent in your studies.
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I understand what you are saying completely. I have been where you are now. You are on the right path(by path I refer to the belief in God, not any one religion). The only advice I can give you is always strive for enlightenment, understanding and wisdom.
 
Heneni

Heneni

Miss Independent
You existed before the earth was created, you were in heaven, there was no other place to be, but then you rebelled agianst god and was banished from his presence, it is through Jesus that you can return to God and return to who you were, and where you were before. You were not a son of god before, but now he calls you a son, and you together with Jesus are rightfull heirs to the kingdom of God, heaven and earth. Pretty amazing.

Why did he have to die? So that you could die with him, if you died with him, you were resurrected with him, and transferred out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light. Why did he have to be crucified, so that he could pay for the sins of the children rather than the children paying for the sins of the father adam in the flesh.

Heneni
 
lilithu

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
logician said:
This story is an obvious fabrication.
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The issue isn't whether it's true, since you likely don't think any of the stories about Jesus were true anyway. The issue is your quoting Bertrand Russell saying that the gospel doesn't praise intelligence. The story clearly shows otherwise. Trying to shift the focus to whether it's true or not is intellectually dishonest.
 
Jeremy Mason

Jeremy Mason

Well-Known Member
lilithu said:
He did both. He lived his life as an example of how we should live. And that got him in trouble with the authorities, which got him killed.

I don't believe that Jesus died as a sacrifice for our sins. He died the way that Gandhi and King died. They did not choose to die, but they chose to live for justice and love, full well knowing that it might cause their deaths. In that respect, they died for us.

No, I'm not Christian, but I know many Christians who would say the same thing. It was Jesus' message and example - ie, his life - that was/is salvific, not his death. If he had lived and taught to a ripe old age, as the Buddha did, and was not crucified, he would still be the Christ.
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The OT describes the atoning process that Jesus fulfilled. It may sound morbid to some, but with out this atonement, we would still be in sin.
 
lilithu

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Jeremy Mason said:
The OT describes the atoning process that Jesus fulfilled. It may sound morbid to some, but with out this atonement, we would still be in sin.
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That's one interpretation. You believe what you believe, and I'll believe what I believe.
 
Jeremy Mason

Jeremy Mason

Well-Known Member
Manipulated said:
What is free in the universe,nothing, everything is paid for or bartered for. something is exchanged for another, science is proof of that. Nothing escapes the system of universal laws, not even God. No doubt God is a chess player and he will sacrifice to win the game.
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Great post!!:)
 
Q

qoorafnamsu

New Member
Hmm I fail to see the beauty in "GOD" coming to earth living as a human, going thru all the torture he faced and difficulties he went thru to then DIE for our sins!!!
 
Heneni

Heneni

Miss Independent
qoorafnamsu said:
Why did jesus die for our sins?? If he was God couldn't he just forgive us??? It all seems abit...Confusing to me!!!
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Does forgiveness lead to repentance?

Does being forgiven make us realise that we were wrong. Will it stop us from doing the same again?

Only repentance stops us from doing the same old stuff that put us in this mess in the first place.

If you are willing to repent, god will forgive you.

There is much speculation about what Jesus did on the cross. The sins he took away from us were the sins we commited while we had no power to overcome the flesh. The sins brought into this world by the sins of Adam.

The father of manking Adam, came to save mankind. The father who brought death into this world, came to bring life (Jesus)

The father of mankind Adam paid for the sins of the children of mankind on the cross (jesus), now the children are free from death, and free to live. If you remain sperated from God is it because you love the darkness more than the light. Now the children pay for their own bad choices, hence the coming judgement.

Heneni
 
logician

logician

Well-Known Member
lilithu said:
The issue isn't whether it's true, since you likely don't think any of the stories about Jesus were true anyway. The issue is your quoting Bertrand Russell saying that the gospel doesn't praise intelligence. The story clearly shows otherwise. Trying to shift the focus to whether it's true or not is intellectually dishonest.
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You're confusing intelligence with wisdom - 2 different things, another reason why this story is an obvious fabrication.
 
G

gotsoul

New Member
Jesus did'nt die at all.God saved him from an ugly death.Read the Bible and you will get the answers.Everyone is responsible for their own sins.Christiandom believes that Jesus died for the sins of mankind. If that were the case, our world will be full of 'bad guys'. No bad guys will worry about the Hereafter as they know that Jesus died for their sins.
 
logician

logician

Well-Known Member
lilithu said:
The issue isn't whether it's true, since you likely don't think any of the stories about Jesus were true anyway. The issue is your quoting Bertrand Russell saying that the gospel doesn't praise intelligence. The story clearly shows otherwise. Trying to shift the focus to whether it's true or not is intellectually dishonest.
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Again you are wrong, this story does not "praise intelligence" as an entity, it glorifies the wisdom of a supposed Jesus at an early age, the only story told about a supposed Jesus BTW before age 30, which is another reason why it must be a fabrication. Again wisdom (knowledge combined with experience) is not the same as pure intelligence.
 
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