Jesus died on a Stake or a Cross?

[Sententia]

Recently a buddy of mine 'buzzed' the following.

!#@#%: RT @WorldGlobalPR: Like Jesus, we have a cross. Like the Romans, we plan on nailing you to it. #AnthemBlueCross #BigHealthCares

Funny eh?

Yeah. While I appreciate the humor it reminded me of something.

When I was a Christian I was told it was a stake. (Not a baptist or catholic christian... this is the Jehovah Witness christian...)

There is actually a lot of controversy surrounding this idea. Christians claim to abhor idolatry but its hard to find a church not featuring such an idol or a Christian without the cross circled around their neck or tattooed onto their body.

So is it idolatry? Was Jesus slain? If he was... was it on a Stake or a Cross?

Bonus questions: Did he rise from the dead? If he did... where was he when he was dead? Why was Jesus a man and not a Woman? Is giving your Son considered better then giving a daughter? Hmmm....

 

[Willamena]

Are all these ideas somehow coherently connected?

 

[Sententia]

Are all these ideas somehow coherently connected?

I think that would be up to you. I can not define your coherency but with enough exposure to you might learn to predict but would never pretend to be an expert.

 

[Willamena]

Well, it might be Just Me.

As I understand it, idolatry worships a "god" of form, whatever form it may take, separate from the person. Out there. Whether a cross around a neck, or a statue, or the concretized earth (universe), or a concretized idea, idolatry worships the form. By contrast, you would find people living in worship, being the idealized form of "god's word" symbolized in the cross.

I don't get the whole "stake" symbolism.

 

[Sententia]

Well, it might be Just Me.

As I understand it, idolatry worships a "god" of form, whatever form it may take, separate from the person. Out there. Whether a cross around a neck, or a statue, or the concretized earth (universe), or a concretized idea, idolatry worships the form. By contrast, you would find people living in worship, being the idealized form of "god's word" symbolized in the cross.

I don't get the whole "stake" symbolism.

Ok... Cool.

So multiple questions. Happy face.

Was Jesus real and slain?

If slain was it on a cross or a stake?

Do modern churches feature idolatry?

Do modern Christians sporting Jesus tattoos or those wicked cool cross necklaces go against the teachings of the bible on the subject of idolatry?

Perhaps all unrelated... but me just stringing things together as they occur to me.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Ok... Cool.
So multiple questions. Happy face.
Was Jesus real and slain?
If slain was it on a cross or a stake?
Do modern churches feature idolatry?
Do modern Christians sporting Jesus tattoos or those wicked cool cross necklaces go against the teachings of the bible on the subject of idolatry?
Perhaps all unrelated... but me just stringing things together as they occur to me.

Related.

As Paul wrote that Christians 'walk by faith not by sight'.
-2 Cor 5v7; Gal 5v16

 

[Willamena]

Was Jesus real and slain?

Doesn't matter. Doesn't change the stories about him.

If slain was it on a cross or a stake?

Necessarily, a cross. What I mean by that is that that is the symbolism that makes sense to me.

Do modern churches feature idolatry?

'Feature'? Idolatry is about the worshiper. Churches may showcase pagentry, but in itself that doesn't imply idolatry.

Do modern Christians sporting Jesus tattoos or those wicked cool cross necklaces go against the teachings of the bible on the subject of idolatry?

I don't know, sorry. I'm not well versed on the Bible.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So is it idolatry? Was Jesus slain? If he was... was it on a Stake or a Cross?
Bonus questions: Did he rise from the dead? If he did... where was he when he was dead? Why was Jesus a man and not a Woman? Is giving your Son considered better then giving a daughter? Hmmm....

If you look at the Genesis account all angelic creation is referred to as 'sons of God'. Male is always used in connection to angels. There are no female gender angels. The pre-human Jesus being the beginning of the creation by God [Rev 3v14 B] would then be considered as male in our understanding.

According to Scripture Jesus was resurrected by God.
There is no Scripture that says Jesus resurrected himself.
Where was Jesus while he was dead is answered at:
Acts 2 vs27,31; Psalm 16 v10.
Jesus was in the Biblical hell or mankind's common grave.
According to Jesus words at John [11vs11-14] Jesus believed that while in the Biblical hell one is asleep in the grave or in a deep sleep-like state until resurrection to either heaven or on earth.-Daniel 12v2,13
Jesus was educated in the Hebrew Scriptures, so Jesus would have known that Ecclesiastes 9v5,10 says the dead know nothing.
Jesus would have known the Psalms which say the dead sleep the sleep of death. Psalms 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4.

As far as the cross, the Greek uses stauros which is not a stake with a crossbeam. Peter and Paul also use the Greek work xylon which is an upright stake without a crossbeam. So there is no evidence Jesus was impaled on two pieces.
Acts [5v30;10v39] simply says Jesus was hung on a tree.

Before Christ the pagan peoples worshiped Tau. That letter 'T' was thus used when the pagan peoples were absorbed into a 'fusion Christianity' that was influenced by the pagans, thus the pagan T with a lowered crossbeam became a 'so-called Christian symbol' when in fact it originated as pagan.

 

[Beaudreaux]

A favorite joke of mine:

Why was Jesus crucified instead of stoned to death?

So Catholics could do this. [makes sign of the cross]

Instead of this [bangs self in head repeatedly with fists]

:biglaugh:

 

[Willamena]

A favorite joke of mine:

Why was Jesus crucified instead of stoned to death?

So Catholics could do this. [makes sign of the cross]

Instead of this [bangs self in head repeatedly with fists]

:biglaugh:

But they have to do the latter anyway, because of bad jokes like this.

Welcome to Instant Rimshot

 

[Dunemeister]

The Greek word for the instrument of Jesus' death is stauros. This could refer to a stake, a cross, a fence post, an easel, just about anything that would be upright and be used to hold up something else. As to the Roman device used for torture and killing, the shapes included that of a capital T, a lower case t, and an X. I'm not aware that they ever used simply an upright stake without a crossbeam of some sort.

 

[Willamena]

The Greek word for the instrument of Jesus' death is stauros. This could refer to a stake, a cross, a fence post, an easel, just about anything that would be upright and be used to hold up something else. As to the Roman device used for torture and killing, the shapes included that of a capital T, a lower case t, and an X. I'm not aware that they ever used simply an upright stake without a crossbeam of some sort.

Ah! See... now Michelangelo's death on an easel makes more sense.

 

[Strength & Honor]

So is it idolatry?

I guess it would ultimately depend on the individual wearing it. I think that, for the vast majority of Christians who do wear these symbols, it is simply a reminder of Christ’s sacrifice. I have neither heard of nor seen any Christians that actually worship the cross itself, and not God, which would constitue idolatry.

Was Jesus slain?

I believe he was.

was it on a Stake or a Cross?

What does it matter in the grand scheme of redemption? Whether it was a cross or a stake, the fact is that Christ made the ultimate sacrifice and shed His blood for us, so that we might have the hope of redemption.

 

[bowingtoGod]

a favorite joke of mine:

Why was jesus crucified instead of stoned to death?

So catholics could do this. [makes sign of the cross]

instead of this [bangs self in head repeatedly with fists]

:biglaugh:

lol!!!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Greek word for the instrument of Jesus' death is stauros. This could refer to a stake, a cross, a fence post, an easel, just about anything that would be upright and be used to hold up something else. As to the Roman device used for torture and killing, the shapes included that of a capital T, a lower case t, and an X. I'm not aware that they ever used simply an upright stake without a crossbeam of some sort.

Please note both Peter and Paul used Not the word stauros but xylon.
Acts 5v30; 10v39; 13v29; Gal 3v13; 1Peter 2v24.

Xylon was translated from the Greek to English as the word "tree".

There is no indication of a crossbeam which would also have meant that a crosspiece or beam would have been a lot more work for the soldiers to impale people.

 

[dogsgod]

1. Galatians 3:13
   Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
   Galatians 3:12-14

Perhaps it was originally believed that Jesus was hung from a tree.

 

[Dunemeister]

Please note both Peter and Paul used Not the word stauros but xylon.
Acts 5v30; 10v39; 13v29; Gal 3v13; 1Peter 2v24.

Xylon was translated from the Greek to English as the word "tree".

There is no indication of a crossbeam which would also have meant that a crosspiece or beam would have been a lot more work for the soldiers to impale people.

The word "tree" doesn't settle the issue either. Trees have branches, y'know. And what difference does it make how much work it would be for the soldiers to conduct their torture? Finally, I've already admitted that there were different shapes for the crosses. I haven't seen any evidence for the stake, but there is plenty for the other shapes I've mentioned.

 

[MW0082]

What does it matter in the grand scheme of redemption? Whether it was a cross or a stake, the fact is that Christ made the ultimate sacrifice and shed His blood for us, so that we might have the hope of redemption.

It matters very much so, considering that Jesus (who probably never existed) was slain on a cross. Then it is simply yet another thing the Christians have stolen from previous Pagan believes. It's one more thing they can be wrong about and say hey it's not the details that count....... com on'

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It matters very much so, considering that Jesus (who probably never existed) was slain on a cross. Then it is simply yet another thing the Christians have stolen from previous Pagan believes. It's one more thing they can be wrong about and say hey it's not the details that count....... com on'

It is 'so-called Christians' that have stolen from the pagans.

Jesus forewarned us at Matthew 24v24 and 7v21 many would come in his name proving false.

Luke also wrote at Acts [20vs29,30] that after the first century that wolf-like clergy, dressed in sheep's clothing, would fleece the flock.
They teach not Scripture but what 'tickles' peoples ears. -2Tim4v3

This ties in with Jesus illustration of the genuine wheat Christians would grow together over the centuries with the fake weed Christians [tares] and grow together until harvest time or the time of separation of Matthew 25vs31,32.

 

[his_word_is_truth]

Recently a buddy of mine 'buzzed' the following.



Funny eh?

Yeah. While I appreciate the humor it reminded me of something.

When I was a Christian I was told it was a stake. (Not a baptist or catholic christian... this is the Jehovah Witness christian...)

There is actually a lot of controversy surrounding this idea. Christians claim to abhor idolatry but its hard to find a church not featuring such an idol or a Christian without the cross circled around their neck or tattooed onto their body.

So is it idolatry? Was Jesus slain? If he was... was it on a Stake or a Cross?

Bonus questions: Did he rise from the dead? If he did... where was he when he was dead? Why was Jesus a man and not a Woman? Is giving your Son considered better then giving a daughter? Hmmm....

Jehovahs Witnesses are not Christians.