bowingtoGod
Member
why not?
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Jesus died on a Stake or a Cross?
- Thread starter Sententia
- Start date
why not?
his_word_is_truth
Member
Where do I begin? First, they dont believe in hell. Second, their beliefs change with whatever comes from the watchtower. They do not believe in the divinity of Jesus. Between 1917 and 1928, they changed their doctrines 148 times. God does not change. Why do they?
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Many Christians do not believe hell is a place of eternal punishment.
Christian doctrine has changed many times over the last 2000 years. Resulting in hundreds of sects and denominations.
Many denominations of Christianity reject the Trinity doctrine.
God does not change.....why has Christianity changed?
As to the OP, while the cross has been used as a symbol of Jesus's death by many Christians through the years, the Romans also used simple poles. In reality, there is no way of knowing for sure the exact shape or style of the execution device. Nor should it really matter to a Christian.
I would think the resurrection would be of much more concern to Christians than the exact manner of death.
Christian doctrine has changed many times over the last 2000 years. Resulting in hundreds of sects and denominations.
Many denominations of Christianity reject the Trinity doctrine.
God does not change.....why has Christianity changed?
As to the OP, while the cross has been used as a symbol of Jesus's death by many Christians through the years, the Romans also used simple poles. In reality, there is no way of knowing for sure the exact shape or style of the execution device. Nor should it really matter to a Christian.
I would think the resurrection would be of much more concern to Christians than the exact manner of death.
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
How could Jesus have suffered the 5 stigmata wounds unless he were crucified on a cross with arms outstretched? And crucifixion (on a cross) was the common Roman punishment for criminals of that time, wasn't it?
You can't crucify a man on a stake.
You can't crucify a man on a stake.
As far as I know stakes were also used as were other shapes. The basic argument from memory is that we are reading a translation and the actual word used could mean cross or stake. The cross was only adopted later as a pagan symbol. (Like most holidays... just pagan rituals Christians adopted as their own.)
Its a fairly popular debate.
bowingtoGod
Member
Many Christians don't believe in hell. Who said Hell is a must for Christianity?
And don't the Catholics belief change from whatever comes from the Church?
Other Christians also do not believe in Jesus' (as) divinity.
And Christian doctrine has changed thousands of times, hence all the sects.
Isn't it safe to say that so long as the Bible is their only text, or the most important one, then they are Christian?
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
Okay, here's another one.
Is yours more accurate that mine? We both did an image search.
Is yours more accurate that mine? We both did an image search.
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
I wasn't saying mine was more accurate. I was showing how the "stigmata" could have come from either a cross or a stake.Okay, here's another one.
Is yours more accurate that mine? We both did an image search.
And again, should it matter to a Christian if it was a cross or a stake?
Isn't the resurrection of more significance to Christianity?
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
It totally matters.
In case you haven't noticed, the cross is the most widely-recognized symbol of Christianity. So either history is wrong or you are.
In case you haven't noticed, the cross is the most widely-recognized symbol of Christianity. So either history is wrong or you are.
MW0082
Jesus 4 Profit.... =)~
Well the symbol was stolen directly from the Pagan Wheel, and as far as history. Is it not ALL wrong...?
I believe it was a stake, many were crusified on stakes at the time. the rest was added as propaganda....
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
You're full of it.
MW0082
Jesus 4 Profit.... =)~
Really, so the Pagan Wheel which has a cross, which Pagans used for years before jesus, is not the same cross?
Com' on.....
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
Even if the Christian cross we know today had a previous meaning, who cares? It doesn't matter because the cross is now known worldwide as the symbol of the Christian religion.
After the Hindu swastika became the Nazi swastika, it signfied something not just different but anti-thetical. Quite a feat for the Nazi Party, turning love into hate.
After the Hindu swastika became the Nazi swastika, it signfied something not just different but anti-thetical. Quite a feat for the Nazi Party, turning love into hate.
tomato1236
Ninja Master
I'm pretty sure stakes are like, 6-inch pegs you nail into the ground. So unless Jesus was a gnome, I don't think it's safe to say. I know that in the New World Translation of the Bible, it says "stake" much more than the KJV. I think there is only one religion that reads the NWT, so I guess it's a question of which religion you adhere to. In the KJV it says Cross, so we KJV readers tend to go with that.
I know this is a central point with JW's, but honestly I don't see how it makes any difference to the core of any religion, unless the religion worships the cross.
I know this is a central point with JW's, but honestly I don't see how it makes any difference to the core of any religion, unless the religion worships the cross.
MW0082
Jesus 4 Profit.... =)~
A stake can be any size, maybe in todays world we only see them for tents, and such but that doesn't mean they are limited to being 6".....
It's not just that it had a previous meaning, they outright stole it. Along with many other Pagan traditions, the cross, December 25th, death and resurrection after 3 days, 3 kings, star of bethlaham, and much much more. It just shows how unoriginal the Christian movement is and how plagioarized the origin is....
tomato1236
Ninja Master
Well right, but that doesn't make Christmas any less fun. I don't like Halloween because it gives big sisters an excuse to dress their little brother up in girl clothes and walk him around the neighborhood...
My religion recognizes that December 25 isn't the actual birthday of Jesus, but we still celebrate it that day, as well as all our other holidays, pagan or not. Who cares? Am I going to (since this is the ultimate end for you) not be resurrected because I went trick-or-treating?
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
I don't understand why you're trying to convince me of something we both know isn't true. It would make more sense for you to be denying the existence of Jesus altogether. This is weird.
MW0082
Jesus 4 Profit.... =)~
Try looking at Pagan Symbols or similairities in Christianity and Pagan.....
p.s. there NEVER was a Jesus Christ....
I don't know what it does, I can only say what it does to me. it makes me suspicious when a new religion uses familiar dates, and traditions and symbols to convert and brainwash the masses. Most people don't know the origin of any of these dates or symbols. Yet claim them as their own....Well right, but that doesn't make Christmas any less fun. I don't like Halloween because it gives big sisters an excuse to dress their little brother up in girl clothes and walk him around the neighborhood...
My religion recognizes that December 25 isn't the actual birthday of Jesus, but we still celebrate it that day, as well as all our other holidays, pagan or not. Who cares? Am I going to (since this is the ultimate end for you) not be resurrected because I went trick-or-treating?
tomato1236
Ninja Master
Try looking at Pagan Symbols or similairities in Christianity and Pagan.....
p.s. there NEVER was a Jesus Christ....
I don't know what it does, I can only say what it does to me. it makes me suspicious when a new religion uses familiar dates, and traditions and symbols to convert and brainwash the masses. Most people don't know the origin of any of these dates or symbols. Yet claim them as their own....
Ok. So where does JW doctrine find its origination? And when?