Jesus Failed Right?

[Colt]

Sergio DellaPergola, one of the leading scholars of Jewish demography, estimates the Jewish population in the first century BCE at 4.5 million and in the first century CE at a number between 4 and 5 million.
So you don't call successful a conversion of 5,000 or even 10-20,000...

There is no question, Jesus was rejected by his own people who were ideally suited to receive him. They still reject him!

 

[Kathryn]

You know what - a few years ago I reread the NT and wow, Jesus was no milquetoast or whatever when He stood before Pilate and Herod!

 

[Kathryn]

Only because God sent him to perform that role. And God being omnipotent, I still have no idea why it was necessary for Jesus to die.

You'll understand it all one day.

 

[Ebionite]

He's not talking about exile, as my other reference made plain ─

Your reference was about the other son of man.

Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man [that is] my fellow, saith YHWH of armies: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zechariah 13:7

He's clearly referring to himself. (In the NT sometimes 'the son of man' clearly refers to Jesus, and sometimes it clearly doesn't, but the reference here makes no sense unless it refers to Jesus.)

No, the assumption that he is referring to himself leads to the conclusion that his father was unjust. That's what condemning the guiltless was about.

But if ye had known what [this] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Matthew 12:7

Gimme a break!

No, the death cult doesn't get a break.

And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
Isaiah 28:18

That can't refer to Jesus, who was not wounded in his hands by his friends.

It's the immediate context of a verse that Jesus refers to in relation to the crucifixion. Who else would it be about?

I ask again

You've been told.

 

[Ebionite]

Do you think you are a little inconsistent here?

What is inconsistent is a just deity intending for a righteous servant to be tortured to death.

 

[Muffled]

Mat 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

Perhaps the plan was God's. Doesn't seem to be what Jesus wanted though.

The physical body does not want to feel pain or die. The Spirit of God in Jesus wasn't worried about what the body wanted. The Spirit can take control when it wants.

 

[Ajax]

What is inconsistent is a just deity intending for a righteous servant to be tortured to death.

Don't tell me...
1 John 2:1-2 "...Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
1 Peter 2:22-24 "He committed no sin; no guile was found on his lips. 23 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten; but he trusted to him who judges justly. 24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree,[c] that we might die to sin and live to righteousness"

There is no way anyone can have a logical discussion with fundamentalists. Every denomination interprets the Bible as they wish and all believe they are infallible because they have the Spirit of God. If that is the case, the Spirit must have over 45,000 different opinions on every subject, but it doesn't.

 

[Ebionite]

Don't tell me...
1 John 2:1-2 "...Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
1 Peter 2:22-24 "He committed no sin; no guile was found on his lips. 23 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten; but he trusted to him who judges justly. 24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree,[c] that we might die to sin and live to righteousness"

1 John was most probably written by Nicodemus, who was a Pharisee and therefore not a reliable source of doctrine.

Peter was called "Satan" because of what he said about Jesus' role in the crucifixion. Again, an unreliable source.

 

[Ajax]

1 John was most probably written by Nicodemus, who was a Pharisee and therefore not a reliable source of doctrine.

Peter was called "Satan" because of what he said about Jesus' role in the crucifixion. Again, an unreliable source.

I will repeat what I wrote above..
There is no way anyone can have a logical discussion with fundamentalists. Every denomination interprets the Bible as they wish and all believe they are infallible because they have the Spirit of God. If that is the case, the Spirit must have over 45,000 different opinions on every subject, but it doesn't.

 

[InChrist]

In that case there's only one will, only one God. Nothing triune there except the three masks that can be put on.

That’s your view and that’s fine, but I think the scriptures reveal ONE God comprised of three co-eternal Persons.

I'm omnipotent. I don't like sin. I say "Let the universe be and remain without sin." I snap my omnipotent finger and instantly sin disappears from the universe never to return.

No torture, no blood, no agony, no death.

Instead an instant, perfect result.

It does work that way since God’s desire and plan was to create beings with freedom to choose. God is Love; there can be no real love without choice.


“Not only skeptics and atheists but also many who call themselves Christians often complain, “Why didn’t God make a perfect world without sin, suffering, or death? If He is all-powerful, surely He could have done that if He had so desired!” This common protest rests upon a very simple misunderstanding: the failure to recognize that God has given to all mankind the power of choice. It is self-evident that without this universal ability we could neither love God, nor one another, nor receive love—and compared with faith and hope, love is the “greatest” (1 Cor:13:13). Nor is it a question of God’s power. Love is a choice that must come from the heart; therefore, even God, with His infinite power, cannot force anyone to love Him or it would not be love. Choosing to love self and this world, instead of the God of infinite love who created us, is clearly the cause of all evil.”

It Had to Be

Not only skeptics and atheists but also many who call themselves Christians often complain, “Why didn’t God make a perfect world without sin, suffering, or death? If He is all-powerful, su

www.thebereancall.org

 

[InChrist]

Do you think you are a little inconsistent here?

No. The third quote you posted wasn’t mine.

 

[Ajax]

No. The third quote you posted wasn’t mine.

Sorry, my mistake, you are right.

 

[Nakosis]

The physical body does not want to feel pain or die. The Spirit of God in Jesus wasn't worried about what the body wanted. The Spirit can take control when it wants.

Ok, so Jesus had to give himself over to the plan of the spirit. Not act according to his own plan.

 

[cataway]

I’m sure we will figure it out when we leave this earth.

are you an astronaut ? anyone that did leave was happy to get back . any one that died and was then resurrected by Jesus or the apostles was also grateful to be alive again .

 

[metis]

I have the Urantia Book revelation so that's how I know, but setting that aside let me ask you a question, do you believe Jesus said this: ...

Certainly not verbatim, plus we should remember that the Gospels had a relatively late writing that also reflects disappointment that so few Jews were joining the Way.

BTW, I get the impression you may be misinterpreting what is written because "the Dogs" refers to the Gentiles, which the Canaanites were considered.

 

[Colt]

Certainly not verbatim, plus we should remember that the Gospels had a relatively late writing that also reflects disappointment that so few Jews were joining the Way.

BTW, I get the impression you may be misinterpreting what is written because "the Dogs" refers to the Gentiles, which the Canaanites were considered.

Canaanites or any non-Jew were looked down on by the Jews. Recall that at one point they said they destroyed all the Canaanites but failed to edit the scriptures that explained that they actually intermarried with them.

 

[metis]

Canaanites or any non-Jew were looked down on by the Jews. Recall that at one point they said they destroyed all the Canaanites but failed to edit the scriptures that explained that they actually intermarried with them.

Well, the reality appears to be that the "Canaanites" were actually Jews living in the lowland areas of eretz Israel. Ever read BAR by chance?

 

[Spice]

It is someone's visions, it does not describe anything that has happened. You don't need to believe anybody's vision. But if a book says this what God said or did, then you either accept it or discard it.

Whoa -- it's John of Patmos' vision as dictated to him by Jesus while imprisoned. So the same should apply as is all other "books," as all are considered by conversative/Orthodox thought that they are man's written words as dictated by God.

 

[Colt]

Well, the reality appears to be that the "Canaanites" were actually Jews living in the lowland areas of eretz Israel. Ever read BAR by chance?

The term Jews is a derivative term for the inhabitants of The Kingdom of Judah roughly 900's BC forward. Judah was a successor of The United Kingdom of Israel. Canaanites refer to the populations of the regions that predate Abrams arrival and subsequent agreement with God or covenant.

 

[Spice]

This makes things even worse, especially when coming from the same author.
Did Jesus lie the first time, or did he change his mind later? What caused him to change his mind? And can a God change his mind?

By the way, the verse you quoted can not be found in older Greek and Latin manuscripts. Eusebius of Caesarea writes in almost all of his books written prior to 336 AD that Matthew 28:19 reads: "Go ye and make disciples of all nations in my name, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."

The lost sheep of Israel were the scattered descendants of the ancient tribes of Israel. . .ten of the twelve original tribes scattered since onquered by the Assyrian King Shalmaneser V. . .the tribes of Israel in Jesus's day were Judah, what was left of Benjamin, (and a few of the priestly tribe of Levi). All others had been displaced centuries prior. This is who Jesus was referring to in both statements.