Jesus Failed Right?

[Trailblazer]

Here is what Jesus also said in the book of Matthew, chapter 28 when he approached his disciples after his resurrection:
"Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”
So "all authority" has been given him in heaven and on the earth.

All authority was given to Jesus while He was on earth, but now Jesus is in heaven, where He has authority.

 

[YoursTrue]

All authority was given to Jesus while He was on earth, but now Jesus is in heaven, where He has authority.

He said this after his resurrection before he ascended to heaven. Yes, Jesus is in heaven now, and he said "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth." I don't know what that means to you, but I would think it means all authority was given to Jesus in heaven AND on the earth. That's both heaven and earth. All authority has been given to him in heaven and earth.
Further, 1 Corinthians 15 explains about the time when Jesus will hand over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.
This goes on to explain that Jesus will rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. And after that, Jesus will then subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, so that God may be all things to everyone.

 

[Trailblazer]

He said this after his resurrection before he ascended to heaven. Yes, Jesus is in heaven now, and he said "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth." I don't know what that means to you, but I would think it means all authority was given to Jesus in heaven AND on the earth. That's both heaven and earth. All authority has been given to him in heaven and earth.

I already told you what I think that means. All authority was given to Jesus while He was on earth, but now Jesus is in heaven.
Jesus has authority in heaven, but Jesus no longer has any authority on earth.

Jesus never said that all authority was given to him on earth for all of time. When Jesus said that He was referring to the time that He was on earth.

Further, 1 Corinthians 15 explains about the time when Jesus will hand over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.
This goes on to explain that Jesus will rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. And after that, Jesus will then subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, so that God may be all things to everyone.

1 Corinthians 15 King James Version (KJV)
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Verse 28 says: And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him.
he and him in verses 25-28 cannot cannot be Jesus since Jesus was the Son. and Jesus cannot be subject to Himself.
The Son is going to be subject to him, whoever he is.

In sum, whoever is going to reign will not be Jesus.

 

[YoursTrue]

I already told you what I think that means. All authority was given to Jesus while He was on earth, but now Jesus is in heaven.
Jesus has authority in heaven, but Jesus no longer has any authority on earth.

Jesus never said that all authority was given to him on earth for all of time. When Jesus said that He was referring to the time that He was on earth.

1 Corinthians 15 King James Version (KJV)
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Verse 28 says: And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him.
he and him in verses 25-28 cannot cannot be Jesus since Jesus was the Son. and Jesus cannot be subject to Himself.
The Son is going to be subject to him, whoever he is.

In sum, whoever is going to reign will not be Jesus.

When Jesus said all authority has been given him on earth and in heaven, it's hard for me to see how anyone could misunderstand that, even if they don't believe it. Anyway, thanks for discussion, have a nice evening.
P.S. - the Bible says Jesus will rule in heaven and then turn everything over to HIS GOD, who he already said is his FATHER. So again -- have a nice evening. But, if you see it differently, that's your way of seeing it.

 

[metis]

The message of Jesus was way ahead of his time.

Which may still be true today as some of its alleged followers appear to forget his message.

 

[Spice]

He said this after his resurrection before he ascended to heaven. Yes, Jesus is in heaven now, and he said "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth." I don't know what that means to you, but I would think it means all authority was given to Jesus in heaven AND on the earth. That's both heaven and earth. All authority has been given to him in heaven and earth.
Further, 1 Corinthians 15 explains about the time when Jesus will hand over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.
This goes on to explain that Jesus will rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. And after that, Jesus will then subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, so that God may be all things to everyone.

But Satan is still active, so does that mean Jesus has now given Satan permission to continue as the Father had allowed?

 

[YoursTrue]

But Satan is still active, so does that mean Jesus has now given Satan permission to continue as the Father had allowed?

Satan has not been abyssed, or done away with. Eventually he will be. I'd have to read more about it, but even with Job, God had restrictions on what he permitted him to do.

 

[metis]

Satan has not been abyssed, or done away with. Eventually he will be. I'd have to read more about it, but even with Job, God had restrictions on what he permitted him to do.

But why would God even allow Satan to do that to begin with? I'm inclined to believe it was meant as a metaphor.

 

[YoursTrue]

But why would God even allow Satan to do that to begin with? I'm inclined to believe it was meant as a metaphor.

Interesting question. Well, evidently there was a type of war going on in heaven and Jehovah's rulership was put in question by Satan before all the angels right at the beginning of human creation.
Jehovah knew Job to be a reverent man. Obviously it is not only good people that suffer, but good/innocent people do suffer. Job remained faithful despite awful circumstances, going from having a wonderful life to a very disturbed life. Yet he maintained his integrity to God. This is a good lesson for us, myself included, because we all suffer at times, some more than others. You might want to read more commentary about this at the library at wol.jw.org and look up Job. I did, there are quite a few articles about this. One pertinent article is found at:

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1966643?q=Job&p=par

“Jehovah went on to say to Satan: ‘Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth?’”—Job 1:8.
(There are more articles about Job as well, even showing the reasoning as to how Moses would have known about Job.)

 

[Spice]

But why would God even allow Satan to do that to begin with? I'm inclined to believe it was meant as a metaphor.

The story of Job, IMV, is an exaggeration of life for us all. There are ups and downs, challenges and dispare, friends who try to help and sometimes make things worse, and so on. But if we hold tight to what we know is right, we'll make it through.

IMO, Job is also a story of reincarnation, or spiritual resurrection if you prefer. In the end, everything Job lost was returned to him multiplied. Now, if this was in the same life, that seems cruel. How can a man's family be returned multiplied, as a good thing? Would he love the replacements more? No. It's more that the hardships of this life will not be repeated in the next if you've held to righteousness, or living rightly, even in the bad times.

 

[Trailblazer]

But why would God even allow Satan to do that to begin with? I'm inclined to believe it was meant as a metaphor.

According to Baha'i beliefs Satan is a metaphor for the lower material nature of man.

“The reality underlying this question is that the evil spirit, Satan or whatever is interpreted as evil, refers to the lower nature in man. This baser nature is symbolized in various ways. In man there are two expressions, one is the expression of nature, the other the expression of the spiritual realm…. God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth that thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil; it is simply the lower state and baser product of nature.”
Abdu’l-Baha, Promulgation of Universal Peace, pp. 294–295.

The Evil One, which is symbolized by Satan, is the lower nature of man, which is waiting to entrap us.

“Say: O people! The Lamp of God is burning; take heed, lest the fierce winds of your disobedience extinguish its light. Now is the time to arise and magnify the Lord, your God. Strive not after bodily comforts, and keep your heart pure and stainless. The Evil One is lying in wait, ready to entrap you. Gird yourselves against his wicked devices, and, led by the light of the name of the one true God, deliver yourselves from the darkness that surroundeth you. Center your thoughts in the Well-Beloved, rather than in your own selves.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 167-168

 

[YoursTrue]

According to Baha'i beliefs Satan is a metaphor for the lower material nature of man.

“The reality underlying this question is that the evil spirit, Satan or whatever is interpreted as evil, refers to the lower nature in man. This baser nature is symbolized in various ways. In man there are two expressions, one is the expression of nature, the other the expression of the spiritual realm…. God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth that thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil; it is simply the lower state and baser product of nature.”
Abdu’l-Baha, Promulgation of Universal Peace, pp. 294–295.

The Evil One, which is symbolized by Satan, is the lower nature of man, which is waiting to entrap us.

“Say: O people! The Lamp of God is burning; take heed, lest the fierce winds of your disobedience extinguish its light. Now is the time to arise and magnify the Lord, your God. Strive not after bodily comforts, and keep your heart pure and stainless. The Evil One is lying in wait, ready to entrap you. Gird yourselves against his wicked devices, and, led by the light of the name of the one true God, deliver yourselves from the darkness that surroundeth you. Center your thoughts in the Well-Beloved, rather than in your own selves.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 167-168

As I understand more about what is in the Koran, seems that it says there would be no further prophets.

 

[Trailblazer]

As I understand more about what is in the Koran, seems that it says there would be no further prophets.

The Qur'an says that Muhammad was the Seal of the Prophets.

Quran 33:40:
Pickthall: Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.

Yusuf Ali: Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.

Muslims believe that means that Muhammad was the last prophet so there would be no further prophets.
Baha'is believe the Seal of the Prophets means that Muhammad was the last Prophet in the Adamic Cycled of religion which started with Adam and ended with Muhammad. We believe ewe are now living in the next cycle of religion called the Cycle of Fulfillment which was ushered in by the Bab and Baha'u'llah, and it is called that because all the Bible prophecies will be fulfilled during this cycle.

 

[YoursTrue]

The Qur'an says that Muhammad was the Seal of the Prophets.

Quran 33:40:
Pickthall: Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.

Yusuf Ali: Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.

Muslims believe that means that Muhammad was the last prophet so there would be no further prophets.
Baha'is believe the Seal of the Prophets means that Muhammad was the last Prophet in the Adamic Cycled of religion which started with Adam and ended with Muhammad. We believe ewe are now living in the next cycle of religion called the Cycle of Fulfillment which was ushered in by the Bab and Baha'u'llah, and it is called that because all the Bible prophecies will be fulfilled during this cycle.

So would you say these views are conflicting? I wonder what @paarsurrey thinks about this. That's what I was wondering, since I read that Bahai's believe Bahaullah was the last prophet, but Muslims believe Mohammed was the last prophet.

 

[Trailblazer]

So would you say these views are conflicting? I wonder what @paarsurrey thinks about this. That's what I was wondering, since I read that Bahai's believe Bahaullah was the last prophet, but Muslims believe Mohammed was the last prophet.

Baha'is do not believe that Baha'u'llah was the last Prophet. We believe that Prophets will continue to be sent by God as long as humanity exists.

 

[YoursTrue]

Baha'is do not believe that Baha'u'llah was the last Prophet. We believe that Prophets will continue to be sent by God as long as humanity exists.

Oh really? I have a few questions about that, but I then wonder what Muslims think about that, in other words, is it considered by Muslims that Mohammed is the last prophet. I hope @paarsurrey or someone knowledgeable can answer this.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Jesus spent 3 years trying to convert people right.

Jesus spent 3 years preaching to Jews that we should obey the Law. He gave sermons elaborating on how to apply the law, much in the same tradition as the Oral Torah expounds and elaborates. He was a Jew preaching to fellow Jews. He had no intention of forming any new religion to convert anyone to.

As far as his "mission" goes, he aspired to be the Messiah, but failed in that. For example, the Messiah will usher in an era of worldwide peace. Jesus didn't do that.

It was Paul who pretty much single handedly took a sect of Judaism and morphed it into a new religion that was based on belief rather than obedience to the Law, and marketed it to Gentiles rather than Jews.

 

[Sargonski]

Baha'is do not believe that Baha'u'llah was the last Prophet. We believe that Prophets will continue to be sent by God as long as humanity exists.

So we have Buddha - Jesus - Bahaullah .. Teaching the same principles .. Muhammad does not make the "which one is not like the others cut unfortunately .. who is next and/or current Messiah.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The message of Jesus was way ahead of his time.

Can you describe in a paragraph (not a long essay) what this message was that was way ahead of his time?

At took time to develop until the fruits start to appear.

And what do you think these fruits are? I'm sure you must be referring to something more significant than the simple spread of Christianity, since popularity does not indicate truth.

This is part of the reason a Third Testament should be written;

Well take your pick. We have the Quran, the Book of Mormon, the Book of Urantia, and many more.

From my point of view, we never needed the New Testament, much less a third one. The Tanakh (OT) does just fine on its own.

The Spanish Inquisition was based on the Atheism

Oh puhleeze. You don't have to like the Catholic church to understand that it has nothing to do with atheism.

Note: Atheism is defined by what it is not, so if Christian says love they need to say hate

Note: your logic is defective. Yes atheism is defined as a LACK of belief in God. But it doesn't follow that it is the opposite of Christianity. For example, atheists would agree with Christians that we need to refrain from harming others, and show empathy, and act fairly.

If you don't like atheism, that's fine. But your need to DEMONIZE it leaves you out in left field.

There are far far far worse things in this life than atheism. The BTK serial killer totally believed in Jesus, but tortured and killed many people. Perhaps you would be better off judging people by their actions than their beliefs.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh really? I have a few questions about that, but I then wonder what Muslims think about that, in other words, is it considered by Muslims that Mohammed is the last prophet. I hope @paarsurrey or someone knowledgeable can answer this.

All Muslims believe that Muhammad was the last prophet.