Jesus Failed Right?

[Hockeycowboy]

Isaiah 2:4 The Messiah will usher in an era of universal peace. Nope, failed.

This is about Yahweh / Jehovah, his worship; not the Messiah.

“In the final part of the days (vs.2)”, worshippers of Jehovah have ‘beaten their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning shears. Nation has not lifted up sword against nation, Nor have they learned war anymore.’

Jehovah’s worshippers are united by His spirit, and have a ‘loving, peaceful’ global brotherhood.

 

[Dimi95]

Yes. Elohim is plural, not singular.

Elohim in plural means Gods , deities , so..
Elohim is also in singular , but you know that ...

No, the name of Elohim is I AM, not YHWH.

Exodus 3
"And Moses said unto God: 'Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them: The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me: What is His name? what shall I say unto them?''

And God said unto Moses: 'I AM THAT I AM'; and He said: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.'

 

[Dimi95]

@Dimi95 , you posted this:


And then once again, you posted this (to reiterate I guess):



Now look what you posted (I highlighted the important part in bold):

You see, this claim that Jesus said he was God by saying “I am”, has to be misunderstood. (This “I am” statement is one of the biggest claims of trinitarians.) It is a false claim.

If it were true that Jesus meant that, then those in the Sanhedrin would have had proof. “But they did not find any.”

See? To say that Jesus meant he was “the I Am”, is wrong. You posted the evidence yourself.

Jesus was simply using the phrase “ego eimi” as everyone else did, in confirming his existence. See John 9:9

You pick what to quote and you pick verses also , as many do here.

After Mark 14:55-...
"Many testified falsely against him, but their statements did not agree.
Then some stood up and gave this false testimony against him: 'We heard him say, 'I will destroy this temple made with human hands and in three days will build another, not made with hands.' "Yet even then their testimony did not agree.
Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, 'Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?' But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer.
Again the high priest asked him, 'Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?'
'I am,' said Jesus. 'And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.'

The high priest tore his clothes. 'Why do we need any more witnesses?' he asked. 'You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?'"

The answer is clear , but you don't see it because of your weird analogy.
What on earth made you post the verse before he answered 'I am'. What's the importance of that verse regarding this issue?

About 'Ego eimi' look post #639 , #642

You forget how Jews stopped using this name.

 

[Ebionite]

Elohim is also in singular , but you know that ...

No, it has the plural yud-mem suffix, but the grammar usually indicates a singular word rather than a plural one.

 

[Dimi95]

No, it has the plural yud-mem suffix, but the grammar usually indicates a singular word rather than a plural one.

"The word 'Elohim', which is one of the most frequently used terms for God in the Torah and in contemporary Hebrew, is a curious word in that it functions both as a singular and a plural word. It is clearly not God's name, which we know to be spelled with the four Hebrew letters (hence the Tetragrammaton, represented in English by YHWH). Rather, Elohim, like the English 'God', is apparently God's job description. And when it appears in a singular context (e.g., the first three words of the Torah, Bere**** bara Elohim, 'In the beginning God created'), it clearly refers to the one true God. But every now and then the exact same word appears in a plural context, in which case it does not refer to God, but rather to other (false) gods or idols.

One such instance happens in Parashat Ki Tissa, when, following Moshe’s tardiness in descending from Mt. Sinai, the Israelites, recently freed from Egypt, request gods: 'Kum, aseh lanu elohim asher yelekhu lefaneinu' (Ex. 32:1). 'Come, make us gods who shall go before us,' they say, although many translations render that elohim incorrectly in the singular (e.g. JPS: 'Come, make us a god who shall go before us'). But the plural verb yelekhu ( 'who shall go') is a dead giveaway in Hebrew."

Elohim, singular and plural

Exodus 30:11 – 34:35

jewishchronicle.timesofisrael.com

 

[Ebionite]

"The word 'Elohim', which is one of the most frequently used terms for God in the Torah and in contemporary Hebrew, is a curious word in that it functions both as a singular and a plural word. It is clearly not God's name, which we know to be spelled with the four Hebrew letters (hence the Tetragrammaton, represented in English by YHWH). Rather, Elohim, like the English 'God', is apparently God's job description. And when it appears in a singular context (e.g., the first three words of the Torah, Bere**** bara Elohim, 'In the beginning God created'), it clearly refers to the one true God. But every now and then the exact same word appears in a plural context, in which case it does not refer to God, but rather to other (false) gods or idols.

One such instance happens in Parashat Ki Tissa, when, following Moshe’s tardiness in descending from Mt. Sinai, the Israelites, recently freed from Egypt, request gods: 'Kum, aseh lanu elohim asher yelekhu lefaneinu' (Ex. 32:1). 'Come, make us gods who shall go before us,' they say, although many translations render that elohim incorrectly in the singular (e.g. JPS: 'Come, make us a god who shall go before us'). But the plural verb yelekhu ( 'who shall go') is a dead giveaway in Hebrew."

Elohim, singular and plural

Exodus 30:11 – 34:35

jewishchronicle.timesofisrael.com

Your article is defective: it describes a notional 'God' which has the name of the tetragrammaton, but Elohim has the name of I AM (Exodus 3:14).

 

[Dimi95]

Your article is defective: it describes a notional 'God' which has the name of the tetragrammaton, but Elohim has the name of I AM (Exodus 3:14).

Defective ? Why , because of my belief?

I agree that the name of God is in Exodus.
So where is the issue?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

For those who are interested:

“Elohim”, a word sometimes used to indicate a plurality of gods, is the word employed by the Philistines at Judges 16:23, which they applied to their main god Dagon, who was just one god, not a multiplicity.

Then why did they use it?

Because they thought he was the best! The most supreme!

So Elohim can mean superlative.

 

[dawny0826]

Jesus spent 3 years trying to convert people right. Only ended up with twelve disciples. One of whom denied him, Matt. 26:69-75. One who betrayed him, Matt. 26:15.

While on the cross he was derided and mocked. Matthew 27:39–44.

Jesus said he came for the Jews, Matthew 15:24. Who he was rejected by.

It was Paul who went to the gentiles and started the Christian movement.

All of the miracles he did, healing people, bringing people back from the dead, feeding thousands with 5 loafs of bread and 2 fish. You'd think he'd have gotten more of a following among the people he claimed he came for.

Christians have promoted the idea that we should be more like Jesus? He was not a very good teacher/preacher to his chosen audience. Was it part of God's plan for Jesus to fail?

Christians SHOULD promote the idea that one should love first and foremost as it's the ultimate fulfillment of the law AND is the essence of Christ's example. Christ didn't fail humanity. The underlying message was misrepresented by humans due to willful ignorance and, genuine misunderstanding and indifference.

 

[Stonetree]

I would not forget Emperor Constantine's contribution to Christianity's success.

Constantine was the Roman emperor famous for ending the persecution of Christians. He is venerated as a saint in the Eastern Churches, but the Roman Catholic Church honors him as an important figure in the history of the faith with the title, Constantine the Great.

 

[Ebionite]

Defective ? Why , because of my belief?

Because your article gets the name wrong.

 

[metis]

One commentary on "Eloheim" is that the plural is used to symbolize God and His angels that are a part of Him.

 

[Dimi95]

Because your article gets the name wrong.

Ok , but just saying its wrong doesnt help..
You can explain something for change , why is wrong , where is it wrong.
If you have interest in doing that , ofc..

 

[Ebionite]

Ok , but just saying its wrong doesnt help..
You can explain something for change , why is wrong , where is it wrong.
If you have interest in doing that , ofc..

In my #646

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Jesus spent 3 years trying to convert people right. Only ended up with twelve disciples.

No, Jesus chose 12 from a bigger group of disciples. — Luke 6:12

All of the miracles he did, healing people, bringing people back from the dead, feeding thousands with 5 loafs of bread and 2 fish. You'd think he'd have gotten more of a following among the people he claimed he came for.

First of all, he had the leaders of the religious establishment constantly working against him:
“The scribes and the Pharisees were now watching Jesus closely ….. in order to find some way to accuse him.” — Luke 6:7
And they had influence over the people.

Another thing is, when he told his disciples that they needed to ‘drink his blood and eat his flesh’ (John 6:53-56), he purposefully thinned them out. — John 6:61.

At 1 Corinthians 15:5-7, we read of many other disciples before he ascended to Heaven.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You pick what to quote and you pick verses also , as many do here.

What? I did that for expediency. Quoting the entire context, will not change the meaning of my statements. It will support what I quoted.

I suggest you read all 4 gospel accounts of Jesus’ Sanhedrin trial. (So you won’t be accused of picking and choosing):
Another gospel account (Matthew 26, in NIV) has the High Priest asking him:
“I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”
(How did Jesus respond?)

“ ‘You have said so,’ Jesus replied.” [Look at the phrase in a Greek interlinear.]

Jesus continues:
“But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

That’s when they accused him of blasphemy.

(It would serve you better, to use all context referencing the same account, and to consult several translations; restricting yourself to one translation, will limit understanding.)

I’m done with this. Have a good day.

 

[Muffled]

Exodus 3:14 in the King James is Not as in the Hebrew " I shall be as I shall be ' I Shall Be has sent me to you ' in the TANACH
In other words, God will chose to become what he chooses to become.
Become whatever is needed back then and also now in order to fulfill Scripture.
So, whatever the situation or obstacle or the need is God 'becomes' the solution answer
In other words, God personal name YHWH was already known but now the 'purpose behind His name' would also be known - Gen.22:14
What does KJV say at Exodus 6:3 is God's name YHWH , so what was known in Genesis was now going to be known in a larger or expanded way than the Genesis forefathers knew about Jehovah - Psalm 83:18 KJV

I believe the selection of tense is by your bias. I believe the rest of the Bible indicates an "I am" tense instead.

 

[Muffled]

Yes. Elohim is plural, not singular.


No, the name of Elohim is I AM, not YHWH.

I believe the JW's are correct on this one. The plurality is that of a diverse oneness not a greater number. Since god is omnipresent His oneness is quite diverse.

 

[Muffled]

One commentary on "Eloheim" is that the plural is used to symbolize God and His angels that are a part of Him.

I believe angels are not part of God.

 

[Sargonski]

I believe angels are not part of God.

I thought God was part of everything ? .. Is your God not the "God of Everything" perhaps a different God from that one ?