Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

[samtonga43]

I do not consider these contrasting statements because I was doing both 1 and 2.

But you did say that you "wanted to learn more about Christianity and have discussions with Christians about my beliefs”. This is different from saying "I was discussing their beliefs and my beliefs".
Can’t you see the difference?

The JWs, for one, but there are other Christians who also believe that.

Which ‘other Christians’ are you referring to?

I cannot say, because only God can judge. I surmise that the law that was disobeyed and the reason for the disobedience would matter to God. Murder and adultery are a more serious offense than whether one said the obligatory prayer or kept the fast.

What does B. say? And how would a Bahai who took another person’s life, or raped a child, be treated by your universal house of justice?

 

[samtonga43]

Fair enough. Sometimes I say things out of hand because I am under a lot of pressure to answer so many posts.

Who is putting you 'under pressure'?

 

[metis]

Thanks here’s what wiki says
Only a brief summary

The teachings of Baháʼu'lláh form the foundation of Baháʼí belief.[26] Three principles are central to these teachings: the unity of God, the unity of religion, and the unity of humanity.

I. E. Communism

thanks

That simply is not at all the same as communism, which is an economic system, btw. Marxism, otoh, is another matter, as that is a political-economic-philosophical system based on the teachings of Karl Marx.

 

[actsfourthirty]

That simply is not at all the same as communism, which is an economic system, btw. Marxism, otoh, is another matter, as that is a political-economic-philosophical system based on the teachings of Karl Marx.

communism or Marxism is very much religious
Atheistic communism set man as the center of the universe so universal peace universal religion is man centered and communistic
Peace and religion are gifts from God to man
To God be the glory

 

[metis]

communism or Marxism is very much religious

Neither is intrinsically religious, but Marxism is partially based on an atheistic approach mandate by Marx. Since "communism" is an economic system, it is neither theistic nor atheistic.

Atheistic communism set man as the center of the universe so universal peace universal religion is man centered and communistic

Again, that's "Marxism".

 

[Trailblazer]

communism or Marxism is very much religious
Atheistic communism set man as the center of the universe so universal peace universal religion is man centered and communistic
Peace and religion are gifts from God to man
To God be the glory

Maybe this will help to clarify the Baha'i position on communism. It is considered by Baha'is to be one of the three false Gods.

The Three False Gods

This vital force is dying out, this mighty agency has been scorned, this radiant light obscured, this impregnable stronghold abandoned, this beauteous robe discarded. God Himself has indeed been dethroned from the hearts of men, and an idolatrous world passionately and clamorously hails and worships the false gods which its own idle fancies have fatuously created, and its misguided hands so impiously exalted. The chief idols in the desecrated temple of mankind are none other than the triple gods of Nationalism, Racialism and Communism, at whose altars governments and peoples, whether democratic or totalitarian, at peace or at war, of the East or of the West, Christian or Islamic, are, in various forms and in different degrees, now worshiping. Their high priests are the politicians and the worldly-wise, the so-called sages of the age; their sacrifice, the flesh and blood of the slaughtered multitudes; their incantations outworn shibboleths and insidious and irreverent formulas; their incense, the smoke of anguish that ascends from the lacerated hearts of the bereaved, the maimed, and the homeless.

The theories and policies, so unsound, so pernicious, which deify the state and exalt the nation above mankind, which seek to subordinate the sister races of the world to one single race, which discriminate between the black and the white, and which tolerate the dominance of one privileged class over all others—these are the dark, the false, and crooked doctrines for which any man or people who believes in them, or acts upon them, must, sooner or later, incur the wrath and chastisement of God.

“Movements,” is the warning sounded by ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, “newly born and worldwide in their range, will exert their utmost effort for the advancement of their designs. The Movement of the Left will acquire great importance. Its influence will spread.”

Contrasting with, and irreconcilably opposed to, these war-engendering, world-convulsing doctrines are the healing, the saving, the pregnant truths proclaimed by Bahá’u’lláh, the Divine Organizer and Savior of the whole human race—truths which should be regarded as the animating force and the hallmark of His Revelation: “The world is but one country, and mankind its citizens.” “Let not a man glory in that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind.” And again: “Ye are the fruits of one tree, and the leaves of one branch.” “Bend your minds and wills to the education of the peoples and kindreds of the earth, that haply … all mankind may become the upholders of one order, and the inhabitants of one city…. Ye dwell in one world, and have been created through the operation of one Will.” “Beware lest the desires of the flesh and of a corrupt inclination provoke divisions among you. Be ye as the fingers of one hand, the members of one body.” And yet again: “All the saplings of the world have appeared from one Tree, and all the drops from one Ocean, and all beings owe their existence to one Being.” And furthermore: “That one indeed is a man who today dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race.”

The Promised Day Is Come, pp. 113-114

 

[Trailblazer]

But you did say that you "wanted to learn more about Christianity and have discussions with Christians about my beliefs”. This is different from saying "I was discussing their beliefs and my beliefs".
Can’t you see the difference?

Sometimes I say things that I meant one way but were misconstrued by the reader. It could be because my wording was awkward or simply because what I said was misunderstood by the reader.

I do not care what I said yesterday or last week, it only matters what I say today and what I mean by what I say.
Moreover, I can only remember what I remember about those days and how I felt at the time. As I recall, I wanted to have discussions with Christians to share my beliefs and learn about their beliefs, a mutual exchange of sorts.

Which ‘other Christians’ are you referring to?

I do not rightly know, but I have heard this from other Christians who are not JWs. I think one was an Eastern Orthodox Christian.
Do you think this belief is strange?

What does B. say? And how would a Bahai who took another person’s life, or raped a child, be treated by your universal house of justice?

The UHJ would not have any authority to punish them because we do not live in a Baha'i world, so the punishment would be left to the secular court system. That said, Baha'u'llah revealed what the punishments would be for certain crimes in His Book of Laws,The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, with an eye looking towards the future. I do not know about rape because I never looked it up on the Aqdas, but the punishment for murder is either the death sentence or life in prison, and it is left to the UHJ to decide which punishment will be applied.

 

[Trailblazer]

Who is putting you 'under pressure'?

I put myself under this pressure but I am starting to do it less and less.

 

[samtonga43]

I put myself under this pressure but I am starting to do it less and less.

Have you asked yourself WHY you put yourself under this pressure?

 

[samtonga43]

I do not care what I said yesterday or last week, it only matters what I say today and what I mean by what I say.

Consistency concerning what you believe is important. How can you be taken seriously if your view changes from week to week?

I do not rightly know, but I have heard this from other Christians who are not JWs. I think one was an Eastern Orthodox Christian.
Do you think this belief is strange?

“See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind”.Isaiah 65:17

“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure”. Isaiah 66:22

"But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells”. 2 Peter 3:13

I believe that if the Father has drawn a person to Christ then that person will live eternally with God.

The UHJ would not have any authority to punish them because we do not live in a Baha'i world, so the punishment would be left to the secular court system. That said, Baha'u'llah revealed what the punishments would be for certain crimes in His Book of Laws,The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, with an eye looking towards the future. I do not know about rape because I never looked it up on the Aqdas, but the punishment for murder is either the death sentence or life in prison, and it is left to the UHJ to decide which punishment will be applied.

What I meant was “How would your faith community (you presumably meet together for worship) deal with a member who has, for example, raped a child? Surely you can answer this without "looking it up on the Aqdas".

 

[actsfourthirty]

Consistency concerning what you believe is important. How can you be taken seriously if your view changes from week to week?


“See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind”.Isaiah 65:17

“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure”. Isaiah 66:22

"But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells”. 2 Peter 3:13

I believe that if the Father has drawn a person to Christ then that person will live eternally with God.


What I meant was “How would your faith community (you presumably meet together for worship) deal with a member who has, for example, raped a child? Surely you can answer this without "looking it up on the Aqdas".

the new covenant church is the new heavens and new earth and New Jerusalem

 

[Trailblazer]

Have you asked yourself WHY you put yourself under this pressure?

I know why, but knowing is only half the battle.
and sometimes pressure can be good.

 

[Trailblazer]

Consistency concerning what you believe is important. How can you be taken seriously if your view changes from week to week?

My religious views do not change from week to week. I am very consistent in my religious views.

“See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind”.Isaiah 65:17

“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure”. Isaiah 66:22

"But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells”. 2 Peter 3:13

I believe in the new earth, the one that the Baha'is and others will build by following the blueprint instructions that Baha'u'llah laid out, whether they ever heard of Him or whether they believe in Him or not.

Revelation 21
New International Version

A New Heaven and a New Earth

21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[b] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

I believe that the the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, refers to the Revelation of Baha'u'llah.

“The time foreordained unto the peoples and kindreds of the earth is now come. The promises of God, as recorded in the holy Scriptures, have all been fulfilled. Out of Zion hath gone forth the Law of God, and Jerusalem, and the hills and land thereof, are filled with the glory of His Revelation. Happy is the man that pondereth in his heart that which hath been revealed in the Books of God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Meditate upon this, O ye beloved of God, and let your ears be attentive unto His Word, so that ye may, by His grace and mercy, drink your fill from the crystal waters of constancy, and become as steadfast and immovable as the mountain in His Cause.

In the Book of Isaiah it is written: “Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of His majesty.” No man that meditateth upon this verse can fail to recognize the greatness of this Cause, or doubt the exalted character of this Day—the Day of God Himself. ”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 12-13

This is part of the reason I put so much pressure upon myself.

I believe that if the Father has drawn a person to Christ then that person will live eternally with God.

I believe that if the Father has drawn a person to Baha'u'llah then that person will live eternally with God.
I am not saying that only those who are drawn to Baha'u'llah will live eternally with God. Only God knows.
Also, if we are drawn to Baha'u'llah we are also drawn to Christ since they are the same Christ Spirit.
In times of distress I cry out to Jesus and God, because I know they are in the Supreme Concourse with Baha'u'llah.

What I meant was “How would your faith community (you presumably meet together for worship) deal with a member who has, for example, raped a child? Surely you can answer this without "looking it up on the Aqdas".

No, I really cannot answer that because I am not on the LSA (Local Spiritual Assembly) in my community. Only those who serve on the LSA know how such matters are dealt with, and personal matters that are brought before the LSA are strictly confidential, never to be discussed with other Baha'is in the community.

 

[actsfourthirty]

New creation in Christ not baha

 

[Trailblazer]

New creation in Christ not baha

There is no reason for the distinction:

“The Bearers of the Trust of God are made manifest unto the peoples of the earth as the Exponents of a new Cause and the Revealers of a new Message. Inasmuch as these Birds of the celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible Faith, they, therefore, are regarded as one soul and the same person. For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of God, and all partake of the fruit of the same Tree of Oneness.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 50

 

[samtonga43]

There is no reason for the distinction:

There is every reason for the distinction, Tb.
Jesus is the second person of the Trinity. B. is not.

 

[Trailblazer]

There is every reason for the distinction, Tb.
Jesus is the second person of the Trinity. B. is not.

Dream on.

#1800 Trailblazer
#1801 Trailblazer

 

[samtonga43]

Dream on.
#1800 Trailblazer
#1801 Trailblazer

It is not I who is dreaming, Tb.
Wake up and read:--
Titus 2:13; Philippians 2:5-8; Hebrews 1:8; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17; Revelation 1:7; 2:8; 1 Corinthians 10:4; 1 Peter 5:4; Mark 14:61-62; Daniel 7:13-14; Mark 2:3-12; Matthew 2:11; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38; 20:28;
Matthew 25:31-46; Mark 8:34-38; 1 Corinthians 15:3-7; Matthew 28:9; Luke 24:36-43; John 20:26-30, 21:1-14; Acts 1:3-6

 

[Trailblazer]

It is not I who is dreaming, Tb.
Wake up and read:--
Titus 2:13; Philippians 2:5-8; Hebrews 1:8; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17; Revelation 1:7; 2:8; 1 Corinthians 10:4; 1 Peter 5:4; Mark 14:61-62; Daniel 7:13-14; Mark 2:3-12; Matthew 2:11; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38; 20:28;
Matthew 25:31-46; Mark 8:34-38; 1 Corinthians 15:3-7; Matthew 28:9; Luke 24:36-43; John 20:26-30, 21:1-14; Acts 1:3-6

I could waste my time going through all those verses but I would only end up proving Jesus is not God -- again.
I might do it just for fun, if I have time.

All you succeed in doing is providing more free advertising for Baha'u'llah.

I already see two verses the refer directly to Baha'u'llah and could not POSSIBLY refer to Jesus.
Why on earth you think Daniel 7:13-14 proves Jesus is God is beyond my comprehension...

I already have that written up and saved, so that will only take a second to locate the Word doc.

If Jesus was the Son of Man the following verses cannot be about the Jesus.
They are about Baha'u'llah who was one like the Son of man.

Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Jesus ascended into heaven in the clouds. Baha’u’llah, one like the son of man, descended from the clouds of heaven of the Will of God, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. These verses are about an earthly Kingdom, not a heavenly Kingdom. Jesus’ Kingdom is in heaven, Baha’u’llah’s Kingdom will be on earth, after it is built by humans.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

[Trailblazer]

It is not I who is dreaming, Tb.

Wake up and read:--

Titus 2:13; Philippians 2:5-8; Hebrews 1:8; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17; Revelation 1:7; 2:8; 1 Corinthians 10:4; 1 Peter 5:4; Mark 14:61-62; Daniel 7:13-14; Mark 2:3-12; Matthew 2:11; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38; 20:28;

Matthew 25:31-46; Mark 8:34-38; 1 Corinthians 15:3-7; Matthew 28:9; Luke 24:36-43; John 20:26-30, 21:1-14; Acts 1:3-6

In case you want to defend your verses, I have started a new thread where they are all listed.

Is Jesus God?

Is Jesus God?