Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

[samtonga43]

I could waste my time going through all those verses but I would only end up proving Jesus is not God -- again.

“Prove”? Here we go again! Listen carefully, Tb. Nothing you ever say, no words from the B. man, no Tb-type logic, will EVER prove that Jesus is not God. If you really think so, you are completely irrational. But if it’s going to be fun for you to ‘prove” that Jesus is not God, please go ahead. At least it will be funny for others to watch you try.

All you succeed in doing is providing more free advertising for Baha'u'llah.

Only to those with a closed mind.

I already see two verses the refer directly to Baha'u'llah and could not POSSIBLY refer to Jesus.

NO verses refer directly to the B. man. Again, you are interpreting via eisegesis.

Why on earth you think Daniel 7:13-14 proves Jesus is God is beyond my comprehension...

LOL! Yes, that does not surprise me in the least, Tb. I would be astonished if you DID understand it.
Here is how I, guided by the Holy Spirit, understand it:
Jesus, the Son of Man, receives an everlasting dominion (ie in every ‘dispensation’). His reign will be permanent; it will never pass away.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.[/QUOTE
To whom was Jesus speaking, and in what context? Why would He address these words to this person, at this time? Think, Tb -- think!

 

[Wildswanderer]

Here is something most Christians don't know:

Jesus promised no less than FOUR times in the gospels that he would return to earth and his apostles would live to see it, yet he never showed up.

Paul believed fervently that Jesus would return in his lifetime:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then WE who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." 1 Thessolonians 4:16-17

Now Paul may have put this idea into the heads of the gospel writers when they started writing the gospels. They had Jesus make these four prophesies that he would return before the apostles died:

“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

For me, this is the one that cannot be excused away with rationalizations like "Jesus was referring to the future generation", or "Jesus was referring to God's time which could be thousands of years in the future". We have Jesus referring directly to the people listening to him when he made that failed prophecy "some of you standing here will not taste death until you see me return"

...they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.“ (Matthew 24: 25-34)

“Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…“ (Mark 13:26-30)

Here in Chap 10 Jesus is giving his apostles instructions on how they should conduct themselves when he sends them out to do God's work

Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. (Matthew 10:23)

Naturally Jesus never showed up. Why? Because we can assume he never said he would return--this was all invention by the gospel writers probably based on Paul's belief Jesus would return and Paul would live to see it. There are five rationalizations Christians have come up with for Jesus' no-show. All are patently ridiculous but you can read them in the link below:

Jesus’ Failed Prophecy About His Return

Um, you know about preterism, right? Jesus did show up, just not bodily. You have to take into account that he often spoke in prophetic language like is found in the Old Testament.

 

[Trailblazer]

“Prove”? Here we go again! Listen carefully, Tb. Nothing you ever say, no words from the B. man, no Tb-type logic, will EVER prove that Jesus is not God. If you really think so, you are completely irrational. But if it’s going to be fun for you to ‘prove” that Jesus is not God, please go ahead. At least it will be funny for others to watch you try.

It cannot be proven that Jesus is God or that Jesus is not God but what the Bible says can be proven by reading the Bible, and what Jesus said can be proven by reading the Bible.

That process of proving was already set in motion last night on my new thread entitled Is Jesus God? and so far the consensus of opinion by looking at your list of verses and others is that Jesus is not God.

Only to those with a closed mind.

Quite the contrary, to those with an open mind look at the Baha'i Faith. Those who have a closed mind remain Christians forever.

NO verses refer directly to the B. man. Again, you are interpreting via eisegesis.

All verses that refer to the return of Christ or the Messiah of the end times refer to Baha'u'llah, since that is who He was.

LOL! Yes, that does not surprise me in the least, Tb. I would be astonished if you DID understand it.
Here is how I, guided by the Holy Spirit, understand it:
Jesus, the Son of Man, receives an everlasting dominion (ie in every ‘dispensation’). His reign will be permanent; it will never pass away.

I guess that Holy Spirit is not a very good guide because Jesus did not receive an everlasting dominion and His reign is OVER. It ended when Muhammad showed up and the reign of Muhammad ended when Baha'u'llah showed up. This is a new Day of God, the likes if which humanity has never before witnessed.

“In the Book of Isaiah it is written: “Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of His majesty.” No man that meditateth upon this verse can fail to recognize the greatness of this Cause, or doubt the exalted character of this Day—the Day of God Himself.” Gleanings, p. 13

To whom was Jesus speaking, and in what context? Why would He address these words to this person, at this time? Think, Tb -- think!

The clue is in the verse that follows:

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

 

[samtonga43]

It cannot be proven that Jesus is God or that Jesus is not God but what the Bible says can be proven by reading the Bible, and what Jesus said can be proven by reading the Bible

Correct. As I said, it cannot be proven that Jesus is God or that Jesus is not God. SO, maybe you ought to stop using the word ‘prove’ altogether. It is not working, and you make yourself look shallow. You say that “What the Bible says can be proven by reading the Bible, and what Jesus said can be proven by reading the Bible." This is waffle (vague, aimless, evasive).

That process of proving was already set in motion last night on my new thread entitled Is Jesus God? and so far the consensus of opinion by looking at your list of verses and others is that Jesus is not God.

I see. And this means that, because some people on a thread on a forum agree that Jesus is not God, Jesus can’t be God? This is logically fallacious, Tb. Once again, no posts, however many, on any thread, anywhere, could ever prove that Jesus is not God.
But, as I said earlier, it IS funny to watch you try.

All verses that refer to the return of Christ or the Messiah of the end times refer to Baha'u'llah, since that is who He was.

Eisegesis. The B.man was just the B.man. Only Christ is Christ.

Jesus did not receive an everlasting dominion and His reign is OVER. It ended when Muhammad showed up and the reign of Muhammad ended when Baha'u'llah showed up. This is a new Day of God, the likes if which humanity has never before witnessed.

Eternal generation of the Son
The name "Creator" or "Savior" refer to acts of God's will, but in contrast his name as Father to the Son is a revelation of the identity of God Himself. The Father brings forth the Son by the act of being God, not by an act of will, so that the Son fully shares in the Father's deity and glory as God. There has never been, nor is it possible for there to be, any God and Father without the Son.

God is an absolutely simple being. There are not three gods. There are not three Lords. There are not three parts of God. Rather, there are three who are Lord, three who are God, three who are One. The Father is not changed by being Father to the Son; Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one God eternally. The Son is not divided from the Father by being the Son; the Son is as near to the Father as the Father is to himself. There is distinction among the divine Persons, but there is no separation.
https://www.theopedia.com/eternal-generation-of-the-son
Contrast the above with Mohammed and the B. man who just “showed up”.

These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

Tb, you really must learn to read in context. You have isolated these words in order to make it say what you want it to say, and you do this far too much; it reeks of desperation. Unless you begin to do read in context, the truth will continue to escape you. I suggest you re-read all of John 17 and then ask yourself:
1. To whom was Jesus speaking?
2. What type of communication was He using?
3. Who were the object/s of His concern?
4. At what stage in His life in the world did Jesus say these words?

I’ll be interested to read any response you may have after you have asked yourself these four questions.

 

[samtonga43]

Um, you know about preterism, right? Jesus did show up, just not bodily. You have to take into account that he often spoke in prophetic language like is found in the Old Testament.

Interesting, Wildswanderer. I do agree that Jesus did 'show up' and indeed shows Himself to Christians every day. Can you say more about preterism? I don't quite understand this concept. Thanks.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Interesting, Wildswanderer. I do agree that Jesus did 'show up' and indeed shows Himself to Christians every day. Can you say more about preterism? I don't quite understand this concept. Thanks.

According to the preterist approach, most of the prophecies in the book of Revelation were fulfilled not long after John wrote.

And many of Jesus' prophetic words were also fulfilled. For example, this one:

"Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

"And again we must recall that the coming of the Son of Man in Daniel 7 is set within a judgment scene before the throne of God (cf. Dan. 7:9–10). Unlike the saying in Matthew 10:23, the saying in 16:28 is found in the immediate context of words regarding judgment (v. 27). The point that Jesus is making when he says that there are some standing here who will not die before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom is that there are some to whom he is speaking who will not die before the prophecy of Daniel 7 is fulfilled, in other words, before Jesus receives the kingdom from his Father."
The Preterist Approach to Revelation — The Unfolding of Biblical Eschatology

 

[Muffled]

Good luck waiting for that.

I believe it is a matter of prophecy not luck. If it doesn't happen in this lifetime I am hoping it will in the next.

 

[Muffled]

What does Christ do exactly? he's dead.

I believe He is not dead and has not been since His resurrection.

 

[Muffled]

I need more then claims from their followers and the writings of "holy books"

I believe Jesus coming in the sky should suffice providing you just don't want to believe and find a way to discount that also.

 

[Trailblazer]

You say that “What the Bible says can be proven by reading the Bible, and what Jesus said can be proven by reading the Bible." This is waffle (vague, aimless, evasive).

No, it is just the truth, the truth you don't want to face.
You are the one who is evasive since you cannot take on any of the verses I post and explain why they do not mean that Jesus is not God.

I see. And this means that, because some people on a thread on a forum agree that Jesus is not God, Jesus can’t be God? This is logically fallacious, Tb. Once again, no posts, however many, on any thread, anywhere, could ever prove that Jesus is not God.
But, as I said earlier, it IS funny to watch you try.

Did I say that because some people on a thread on a forum agree that Jesus is not God, Jesus can’t be God? No, Jesus cannot be God because God is not a man -- any rational person can understand that, and of course it is backed up by the Bible.

God, when Numbers 23:19 says that God is not a man or a son of man?

Answer

Some claim that the Old Testament proves that Jesus cannot be God because of Numbers 23:19a, which says, “God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent” (KJV). The reasoning is that, if God is not a man, then the Christian claim that Jesus, a man, is God is false. Just as troublesome is the fact that Jesus repeatedly calls Himself the “Son of Man” in the gospels (e.g., Mark 14:21).

The Old Testament does indeed teach that God is not a human being, not only in Numbers 23:19 but also in 1 Samuel 15:29 and Hosea 11:9. However, the New Testament shows us that Jesus made claims to be God—and at the same time He calls Himself the “Son of Man,” a title that proclaims His humanity. With all this being true, how can we prove that Jesus is God?

Jesus claimed to be both the Son of God and the Son of Man. There are no tricks here. He said that He is God, and He said that He is (at the same time) human. No one had ever said such a thing before. It was strange then, and it is strange now—strange enough for a new term, the hypostatic union. No one will ever fully understand the union of Christ’s divine and human natures, no matter how much we talk about it, define it, or typify it. Therefore, “proof” cannot be obtained. We either believe Jesus, or we do not.

How can Jesus be God, when Numbers 23:19 says that God is not a man or a son of man? | GotQuestions.org

“the New Testament shows us that Jesus made claims to be God.”

No, it does not show us any such thing. Show me one verse where Jesus claimed to be God.

“Jesus claimed to be both the Son of God and the Son of Man. There are no tricks here. He said that He is God,”

Lol, Jesus claimed to be both the Son of God and the Son of Man, which means Jesus is NOT God.

Jesus never claimed to be God, and that is why you will never find such a verse in the Bible so you have to twist the meanings of verses to TRY to prove that Jesus is God.

"No one will ever fully understand the union of Christ’s divine and human natures, no matter how much we talk about it, define it, or typify it."

He sure got that wrong, because Baha'u'llah fully understood the union of Christ’s divine and human natures, and He explained it in words everyone can understand:

“Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testifieth the tradition: “Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is.” And in like manner, the words: “Arise, O Muḥammad, for lo, the Lover and the Beloved are joined together and made one in Thee.” He similarly saith: “There is no distinction whatsoever between Thee and Them, except that They are Thy Servants.” The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” “Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 66-67

``````````````````````````````````````````````````
Is Jesus God?

Answer

Some who deny that Jesus is God make the claim that Jesus never said that He is God. It is correct that the Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” This does not mean, however, that Jesus never claimed to be God.

Is Jesus God? Why should I believe that Jesus is God? | GotQuestions.org

The illogical statements just don't not stop, they keep going. Of course the fact that Jesus never claimed to be God means that Jesus is not God. The ONLY reason Jesus was ever thought of as God is because some Christians tried to make Jesus into God. Sure, Jesus knew that He was God, He was just keeping it a secret.

Eisegesis. The B.man was just the B.man. Only Christ is Christ.

Eternal generation of the Son
The name "Creator" or "Savior" refer to acts of God's will, but in contrast his name as Father to the Son is a revelation of the identity of God Himself. The Father brings forth the Son by the act of being God, not by an act of will, so that the Son fully shares in the Father's deity and glory as God. There has never been, nor is it possible for there to be, any God and Father without the Son.

God is an absolutely simple being. There are not three gods. There are not three Lords. There are not three parts of God. Rather, there are three who are Lord, three who are God, three who are One. The Father is not changed by being Father to the Son; Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one God eternally. The Son is not divided from the Father by being the Son; the Son is as near to the Father as the Father is to himself. There is distinction among the divine Persons, but there is no separation.
https://www.theopedia.com/eternal-generation-of-the-son

Contrast the above with Mohammed and the B. man who just “showed up”.

Only Christ is Christ and only Baha'u'llah is Baha'u'llah... So what?
There is no difference, Jesus also just showed up. You just want to make Jesus special, but He was just another Manifestation of God. Jesus had a special mission, but so did all of the Manifestations of God.

“Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 59-60

Tb, you really must learn to read in context. You have isolated these words in order to make it say what you want it to say, and you do this far too much; it reeks of desperation. Unless you begin to do read in context, the truth will continue to escape you. I suggest you re-read all of John 17 and then ask yourself:
1. To whom was Jesus speaking?
2. What type of communication was He using?
3. Who were the object/s of His concern?
4. At what stage in His life in the world did Jesus say these words?

I’ll be interested to read any response you may have after you have asked yourself these four questions.

Desperation? No Baha'i has ever been desperate because we have the truth from God for this age. It is the Christians who are desperate, trying to override the Will of God with their "belief" that Jesus is the Only Way for all time.

I am not going to answer 1-4 because it is irrelevant who Jesus was speaking to 2000 years ago since it has absolutely no bearing on the world we live in today. I have better things to do than analyze the meaning of old scriptures that have been superseded by the scriptures of three Manifestations of God.

 

[Alex22]

I believe He is not dead and has not been since His resurrection.

Where's the evidence for that? all you have is a story

 

[Alex22]

I believe Jesus coming in the sky should suffice providing you just don't want to believe and find a way to discount that also.

That's just a story.

 

[samtonga43]

That's just a story.

STORY: English Oxford Dictionary
A description, either true or imagined, of a connected series of events:

 

[samtonga43]

I am not going to answer 1-4 because it is irrelevant who Jesus was speaking to 2000 years ago since it has absolutely no bearing on the world we live in today. I have better things to do than analyze the meaning of old scriptures that have been superseded by the scriptures of three Manifestations of God.

This is an excuse. Tb, without context there can be no understanding. Context can be ignored accidentally or deliberately, but if you continue to isolate verses from their context to make them say what you want them to say you will lose all credibility.

Now, I would advise you to ask yourself these questions (1 – 4) as an experiment. No one is asking you to "analyze the meaning of old Scriptures" (this is not what reading in context means). I believe that the answers will give you some insight into why Jesus words “I am no more in the world” do not mean what you say they mean.

Of course it’s very easy to rip a group of words from their context; anyone can do it. However, all it does is indicate poor comprehensive skills.

I will respond to the rest of your post at some point, but I feel that honest communication about the importance of context is necessary. Please think about it.

 

[Trailblazer]

STORY: English Oxford Dictionary
A description, either true or imagined, of a connected series of events:

That is exactly what Jesus coming in the sky is, an imaginary STORY someone once told.

 

[samtonga43]

That is exactly what Jesus coming in the sky is, an imaginary STORY someone once told.

That's just an opinion.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is an excuse. Tb, without context there can be no understanding. Context can be ignored accidentally or deliberately, but if you continue to isolate verses from their context to make them say what you want them to say you will lose all credibility.

But I do not do that. I quoted John 18:36 in context. Nothing else in John 18 is even remotely related to whether Jesus' kingdom is of this world so I only cited the relevant verses.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

Now, I would advise you to ask yourself these questions (1 – 4) as an experiment. No one is asking you to "analyze the meaning of old Scriptures" (this is not what reading in context means). I believe that the answers will give you some insight into why Jesus words “I am no more in the world” do not mean what you say they mean.

I am not into playing guessing games If you think that you know what Jesus said that please tell me. I am perfectly willing to debate that. Meanwhile, let's look at the context. Within the context, Jesus is saying that He has finished the work that God gave Him to do, glorifying God, and now Jesus was no more in the world. No other verses say that Jesus is coming back to this world, and that is the important point.

John 17 King James Version (KJV)

17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

Of course it’s very easy to rip a group of words from their context; anyone can do it. However, all it does is indicate poor comprehensive skills.

Please show me where I did that or stop accusing me of such.

 

[Trailblazer]

I suggest you re-read all of John 17 and then ask yourself:
1. To whom was Jesus speaking?
2. What type of communication was He using?
3. Who were the object/s of His concern?
4. At what stage in His life in the world did Jesus say these words?

I did not know so I Googled it, and this answers your questions.

John 17 is the seventeenth chapter of the Gospel of John in the New Testament of the Christian Bible. It portrays a prayer of Jesus Christ addressed to His Father, placed in context immediately before His betrayal and crucifixion, the events which the gospel often refers to as His glorification.
Christian Bible part: New Testament
Book: Gospel of John
Category: Gospel
Order in the Christian part: 4

John 17 - Wikipedia
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1. To whom was Jesus speaking? He was speaking to God in prayer.
2. What type of communication was He using? It was an intercessory prayer.
3. Who were the object/s of His concern? His disciples living then and future Christians who would read Hos words.
4. At what stage in His life in the world did Jesus say these words? Immediately before His betrayal and crucifixion, before he died on the cross.

 

[samtonga43]

But I do not do that. I quoted John 18:36 in context. Nothing else in John 18 is even remotely related to whether Jesus' kingdom is of this world so I only cited the relevant verses.

You don’t understand, Tb. I suggest you think about the following:
“It’s important to study Bible passages and stories within their context. Taking verses out of context leads to all kinds of error and misunderstanding. Understanding context begins with four principles: literal meaning (what it says), historical setting (the events of the story, to whom is it addressed, and how it was understood at that time), grammar (the immediate sentence and paragraph within which a word or phrase is found) and synthesis (comparing it with other parts of Scripture for a fuller meaning). Context is crucial to biblical exegesis in that it is one of its most important fundamentals. After we account for the literal, historical, and grammatical nature of a passage, we must then focus on the outline and structure of the book, then the chapter, then the paragraph. All of these things refer to "context." To illustrate, it is like looking at Google Maps and zooming in on one house”.
Why is it important to study the Bible in context? What is wrong with taking verses out of context? | GotQuestions.org

Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

Wrong. Jesus came into the world to seek and to save the lost.”
The Holy Spirit is still seeking and saving the lost’

Here is what John says about why Jesus came::
To reveal the Father (John 1:18)
To save the world (John 3:16-17)
To do God’s will (John 6:38)
To turn everything upside down (for judgment) (John 9:39)
To give abundant life (John 10:10)
To be lifted up on the cross (John 12:27)
To shine light in darkness (John 12:46)
To bear witness to the truth as the king of the world (John 18:37)
To put away sin (1 John 3:5)
To destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8)

“I am no more in the world”, when read in context, refers to His death and resurrection.

When Jesus speaks of His ‘Kingdom’ He is referring to a spiritual kingdom of truth where Jesus reigns as Lord over the lives of His people. He did not come to earth to rule over a mortal empire. He came to bear witness to the truth of who He is—the Messiah, Savior of the world.

I am not into playing guessing games If you think that you know what Jesus said that please tell me. I am perfectly willing to debate that. Meanwhile, let's look at the context. Within the context, Jesus is saying that He has finished the work that God gave Him to do, glorifying God, and now Jesus was no more in the world. No other verses say that Jesus is coming back to this world, and that is the important point.

You say, “let’s look at the context”. But you fail to provide the context.

Please show me where I did that or stop accusing me of such.

John 18:36 There are many more but this is the most recent example.

 

[Trailblazer]

Wrong. Jesus came into the world to seek and to save the lost.”
The Holy Spirit is still seeking and saving the lost’

Here is what John says about why Jesus came::
To reveal the Father (John 1:18)
To save the world (John 3:16-17)
To do God’s will (John 6:38)
To turn everything upside down (for judgment) (John 9:39)
To give abundant life (John 10:10)
To be lifted up on the cross (John 12:27)
To shine light in darkness (John 12:46)
To bear witness to the truth as the king of the world (John 18:37)
To put away sin (1 John 3:5)
To destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8)

Right. Jesus came into the world to seek and to save the lost.”

The Holy Spirit is still seeking and saving the lost’ is just a Christian belief, it is not in the Bible.

The Holy Spirit does not do anything at all unless it is working through a Person. The Person it is working through in this age is Baha’u’llah.

“I am no more in the world”, when read in context, refers to His death and resurrection.

“I am no more in the world” refers to His death, but not to His bodily resurrection, which never occurred.

When Jesus speaks of His ‘Kingdom’ He is referring to a spiritual kingdom of truth where Jesus reigns as Lord over the lives of His people. He did not come to earth to rule over a mortal empire. He came to bear witness to the truth of who He is—the Messiah, Savior of the world.

That is true.

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

“The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting.” Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks

You say, “let’s look at the context”. But you fail to provide the context.

I did provide the context. Jesus says a prayer speaking to God saying that that He has glorified God on earth and He has finished the work that God gave Him to do and the He says that He is no more in the world and He is coming to His Father.

John 17 King James Version (KJV)

17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

no more in the world means no more in the world. Nowhere in the entire New Testament did Jesus ever say He was coming back to this world yet this is what most Christians believe, which shows they cannot even read and understand their own Bible. It is all about what they want, not about what is in the Bible, but they will never get what they want because Jesus is never coming back to this world. This has nothing to do with Baha’u’llah because even if He has not been who He claimed to be Jesus would still never come back in the same body because he never planned to come back.

That is precisely why Jesus said:

Matthew 24 KJV

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Please note that Jesus never answered saying He was coming back to this world, Jesus said that anyone who came claiming to be Christ would be deceive man so that means he would be a false prophet. Baha’u’llah never claimed to be Christ. He came with a new name, just as the Bible prophesied:

Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12-13 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

The new name means that the return of Christ would be another man. Why would Jesus change his name if he wanted people to know He was Jesus? Sadly, Christians do not bother to think about what these verses actually mean -- what the Spirit saith unto the churches -- yet they have completely disregarded what the Spirit said because they STILL believe that the same Jesus is going to come down from heaven on the clouds.