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Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
samtonga43 said:
I have not quoted out of context (see
#463)
Can you show me where the Bible says there is no God?
Click to expand...
You can deny it as much as you like, but you focused on only one part of a quote that was part of a larger conversation. You made an unjustified assumption. But that is because you want to have a debate that you could possibly win, not one that you would quickly lose. That was shown by your dodging the question in the previous post of mine that you ignored.:

"It is a mistake to try to interpret posts what you want them to mean rather than trying to understand them. That is a version of using strawman arguments.

But let's discuss the failings of the Bible. Is it proper to call Jeffrey Dahmer a cannibalistic serial killer?"
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
A flood may have been necessary for some people to survive. But that is it. It would not take a hundred years to build such a boat since it would make much more sense to walk uphill. Have you looked into the history of the myth at all? It did not originate with the ancient Hebrews. They copied it from the Babylonians who got the story from an older tribe. As told in the Bible it never happened. Noah is fictional.


EDIT: That is good news for Christians. It means that God is not nearly as genocidal as the Old Testament paints him to be.
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God is the creator and judge of the whole world. God is not a human who can be genocidal.
The existence of older stories about the flood to me is evidence that the story is real.
If you assume none of it is real then the older story is not real and the younger one is not real.
Why is the one told in the Bible not the true version if it was really God inspiring the writing in the Bible?
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Brian2 said:
God is the creator and judge of the whole world. God is not a human who can be genocidal.
The existence of older stories about the flood to me is evidence that the story is real.
If you assume none of it is real then the older story is not real and the younger one is not real.
Why is the one told in the Bible not the true version if it was really God inspiring the writing in the Bible?
Click to expand...
The reason that you do not want to admit that a god can be genocidal is because it is your personal version of god. And no, the story being copied from older sources only shows that it is a story. The story in the Bible, like the Garden of Eden story, portray your God as evil and incompetent. You are reasoning emotionally rather than rationally.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
SeekingAllTruth said:
Here is something most Christians don't know:

Jesus promised no less than FOUR times in the gospels that he would return to earth and his apostles would live to see it, yet he never showed up.

Paul believed fervently that Jesus would return in his lifetime:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then WE who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." 1 Thessolonians 4:16-17

Now Paul may have put this idea into the heads of the gospel writers when they started writing the gospels. They had Jesus make these four prophesies that he would return before the apostles died:

“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

For me, this is the one that cannot be excused away with rationalizations like "Jesus was referring to the future generation", or "Jesus was referring to God's time which could be thousands of years in the future". We have Jesus referring directly to the people listening to him when he made that failed prophecy "some of you standing here will not taste death until you see me return"

...they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.“ (Matthew 24: 25-34)

“Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…“ (Mark 13:26-30)

Here in Chap 10 Jesus is giving his apostles instructions on how they should conduct themselves when he sends them out to do God's work

Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. (Matthew 10:23)

Naturally Jesus never showed up. Why? Because we can assume he never said he would return--this was all invention by the gospel writers probably based on Paul's belief Jesus would return and Paul would live to see it. There are five rationalizations Christians have come up with for Jesus' no-show. All are patently ridiculous but you can read them in the link below:

Jesus’ Failed Prophecy About His Return
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Jesus said what he said in his humanity. Was Christ Mistaken About His Second Coming?

When one encounters a passage that speaks of a “coming” of Christ, he must examine the context to determine the correct usage of the term in that particular setting.

Now, what are the facts of this matter?

First, it is quite clear that Christ did prophesy that he would literally come again (Matt. 25:31). His coming was to be: personal (1 Thes.4:16); visible (Acts 1:11); sudden and unexpected (1 Thes. 5:2, 3); glorious (Matt. 25:31); victorious (2 Thes. 1:7-10); and terminal (1 Cor. 15:24).

Now here is a fact of paramount importance: there is not a shred of evidence to indicate that Christ believed his second coming (Heb. 9:28) would occur within the first century.

As a matter of fact, the Son of Man, having emptied himself (Phil. 2:6ff) of the independent exercise of his divine powers by the incarnation, did not know the time of his second coming (Matt. 24:36). Though he knew not the day nor hour of that great event, Christ did hint that there could be a considerable delay before he would come again.

For example, in the Parable of the Talents Christ represents himself as a man who delivered talents to his servants to be developed while he was gone into another country (heaven). In Matthew 25:19 he declared:

“Now after a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and maketh a reckoning with them” (emphasis added).

It is not correct, therefore, to assert that Christ believed in his imminent return!
Click to expand...
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
The reason that you do not want to admit that a god can be genocidal is because it is your personal version of god. And no, the story being copied from older sources only shows that it is a story. The story in the Bible, like the Garden of Eden story, portray your God as evil and incompetent. You are reasoning emotionally rather than rationally.
Click to expand...

Who said the story was copied?
If you call the Bible God genocidal because He has and said He will wipe out certain nations, that is your opinion but it lessens who the Bible God is to the status of a human and not that of the creator and judge of His creation.
Do you think that just because God knew that humans would choose their own path against His advice, that is a good reason to call Him evil?
Really we don't know the final outcome of things and so have no basis to judge this God as incompetent or evil except our own limited vision and understanding.
Admittedly that is all you can go by if you are not prepared to believe what the Bible God says. But it does sound as if much of your judgement against the Bible God is based on you're not listening to the story.
 
samtonga43

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
You can deny it as much as you like, but you focused on only one part of a quote that was part of a larger conversation. You made an unjustified assumption. But that is because you want to have a debate that you could possibly win, not one that you would quickly lose. That was shown by your dodging the question in the previous post of mine that you ignored.:

"It is a mistake to try to interpret posts what you want them to mean rather than trying to understand them. That is a version of using strawman arguments.

But let's discuss the failings of the Bible. Is it proper to call Jeffrey Dahmer a cannibalistic serial killer?"
Click to expand...

Don't dodge the question, SZ:
"Can you show me where the Bible says there is no God?"

Jeffrey Dahmer? I don't know much about him. What do you think?
 
samtonga43

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
Brian2 said:
Who said the story was copied?
If you call the Bible God genocidal because He has and said He will wipe out certain nations, that is your opinion but it lessens who the Bible God is to the status of a human and not that of the creator and judge of His creation.
Do you think that just because God knew that humans would choose their own path against His advice, that is a good reason to call Him evil?
Really we don't know the final outcome of things and so have no basis to judge this God as incompetent or evil except our own limited vision and understanding.
Admittedly that is all you can go by if you are not prepared to believe what the Bible God says. But it does sound as if much of your judgement against the Bible God is based on you're not listening to the story.
Click to expand...

I think he/she is listening: just not hearing. I was this way also. There is Hope!
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
samtonga43 said:
Don't dodge the question, SZ:
"Can you show me where the Bible says there is no God?"

Jeffrey Dahmer? I don't know much about him. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Yes, I can show you the fifteen separate times the Bible says 'there is no god'. I can see the point went over your head.


And you dodged a question again. Take some time, look up Jeffrey Dahmer and answer the question.
 
samtonga43

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
Yes, I can show you the fifteen separate times the Bible says 'there is no god'. I can see the point went over your head.


And you dodged a question again. Take some time, look up Jeffrey Dahmer and answer the question.
Click to expand...

LOL! No. The point did not go over my head, SZ.

So, please show me/us where Scripture states that there is no God. Let's see -- can you manage 4 places where this is said?

Remember now -- don't miss words out! ;)
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
Please, no, only the Bible says that at best. That is not Jesus saying it. And Jesus also says he is not God in the Bible. If you use the Bible to confirm that he claims to be God, then you also have to accept that he denies being God.
Click to expand...

Have you got a passage where He denies being God?
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
samtonga43 said:
LOL! No. The point did not go over my head, SZ.

So, please show me/us where Scripture states that there is no God. Let's see -- can you manage 4 places where this is said?

Remember now -- don't miss words out! ;)
Click to expand...
Then why did you ask?

Tell me what you think the point is and I can give you a single link to all fifteen.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
samtonga43 said:
See bold.
Prove it.
Click to expand...
LOL!! You don't even understand the burden of proof. Let's work through what I said. I was pointing out that the burden of proof for the claim being made is only supported by the Bible. It does not mean that Jesus said it.

I think that we have another Bible worshipper here.

The Bible is the claim, it is not the evidence. I pointed out that it was only claimed in the Bible. If you want to claim that the Bible is some sort of magic source that "proves" things then the burden of proof is upon you.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
Please, no, only the Bible says that at best. That is not Jesus saying it. And Jesus also says he is not God in the Bible. If you use the Bible to confirm that he claims to be God, then you also have to accept that he denies being God.
Click to expand...

To know the context you have to look at the big picture. People notice different things when the read the Bible over and over again. Jesus was talking in his humanity He was within time and space. Jesus is God, but he was also speaking in his humanity. Was Christ Mistaken About His Second Coming?

First, it is quite clear that Christ did prophesy that he would literally come again (Matt. 25:31). His coming was to be: personal (1 Thes.4:16); visible (Acts 1:11); sudden and unexpected (1 Thes. 5:2, 3); glorious (Matt. 25:31); victorious (2 Thes. 1:7-10); and terminal (1 Cor. 15:24).

Now here is a fact of paramount importance: there is not a shred of evidence to indicate that Christ believed his second coming (Heb. 9:28) would occur within the first century.

As a matter of fact, the Son of Man, having emptied himself (Phil. 2:6ff) of the independent exercise of his divine powers by the incarnation, did not know the time of his second coming (Matt. 24:36). Though he knew not the day nor hour of that great event, Christ did hint that there could be a considerable delay before he would come again.
Click to expand...
 
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