Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

[Subduction Zone]

You made a positive claim.
"That is not Jesus saying it".
The onus is on you to prove your positive claim. You have the burden of proof.

So, get on with it.

And you had to once again quote out of context. Naughty, naughty.

 

[Subduction Zone]

See bold.
Yet another logical fallacy. Strawman this time.

You do not appear to understand logical fallacies. I would suggest that you do not try to apply them. No strawman argument. Try again.

Quoting out of context is almost always a dishonest debating technique. One should avoid doing it. Also editing a post after the fact is not a proper technique. Avoid that as well please.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And here we can clearly see that you see only what you want to see. It's called confirmation bias.

Oh my, another term that you do not appear to understand.

 

[samtonga43]

And you had to once again quote out of context. Naughty, naughty.

Context here.

"Please, no, only the Bible says that at best. That is not Jesus saying it. And Jesus also says he is not God in the Bible. If you use the Bible to confirm that he claims to be God, then you also have to accept that he denies being God."

Proof of bolded sentence please.

 

[samtonga43]

Oh my, another term that you do not appear to understand.

I understand the term. You obviously do not.

You do not appear to understand logical fallacies. I would suggest that you do not try to apply them. No strawman argument. Try again.

I can hardly do otherwise than address your logical fallacies. Your posts are flooded with them and I would like to help, if you will allow me.

Take time to do some research on why the strawman fallacy gets its name; then read your post again and you may understand.

You don't have to admit that you are wrong, but do try to learn why you are wrong.

 

[samtonga43]

The reason that you do not want to admit that a god can be genocidal is because it is your personal version of god. And no, the story being copied from older sources only shows that it is a story. The story in the Bible, like the Garden of Eden story, portray your God as evil and incompetent. You are reasoning emotionally rather than rationally.

Only if one reads it literally and emotionally, as you do.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Context here.

"Please, no, only the Bible says that at best. That is not Jesus saying it. And Jesus also says he is not God in the Bible. If you use the Bible to confirm that he claims to be God, then you also have to accept that he denies being God."

Proof of bolded sentence please.

No need, quoted out of context. Refer to the previous sentence. Please try again.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Only if one reads it literally and emotionally, as you do.

No, no no, that is clearly not my error. I have always pointed out that treating that story literally paints God that way. I don't see how you can possibly get things so backwards all of the time. You are once again trying to make a post say what you want it to say and not what it says because you cannot refute it as written.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I understand the term. You obviously do not.



I can hardly do otherwise than address your logical fallacies. Your posts are flooded with them and I would like to help, if you will allow me.

Take time to do some research on why the strawman fallacy gets its name; then read your post again and you may understand.

You don't have to admit that you are wrong, but do try to learn why you are wrong.

No, you clearly lack such an understanding. I made no logical fallacies, You can only try to falsely interpret posts.

By the poor logic that you are using the fifteen verses that say "there is no God" in the Bible tell us that there is no God. This is your error not mine. I do not quote out of context.

 

[samtonga43]

The story in the Bible, like the Garden of Eden story, portray your God as evil and incompetent

.

Only if you read literally, as you are doing here. I don't know why you fail to understand this. (Well, I do, but that's for another time).

It's as if you don't understand that the words you have put together have meaning.

Or perhaps you just forgot to insert the words in bold?
"The story in the Bible, like the Garden of Eden story, if read literally, portray your God as evil and incompetent".

 

[samtonga43]

By the poor logic that you are using the fifteen verses that say "there is no God" in the Bible tell us that there is no God. This is your error not mine. I do not quote out of context.

I am not using poor logic and, if read in context, the Bible does not say that there is no God. The sooner you understand this, the sooner you will begin to make sense, SZ.

 

[samtonga43]

No need, quoted out of context. Refer to the previous sentence. Please try again.

No need to 'try again', SZ. It is obvious (or should be) to all but your good self.

You say that only the Bible says that at best. That is not Jesus saying it.

You state the bolded words as a fact, but you have no proof.

 

[Brian2]

Yes, but it is by context because people never asked Jesus the stupid question "Are you God?" In fact he never claims to be God either. Again that interpretation is through context. Here is a link to one such verse:

Mark 13:32 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Yes I think I have heard all of those verses which ignore the fact that Jesus was (and still is a man) and has a God (since His Father became His God when He became a man-Ps 22:10) and Jesus laid aside His God "powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men". He became mortal and was given power from God to perform miracles etc.
So no, Jesus is not saying in those places that He is not God.
The claim to be the Son of God was a claim to equality with God.
Thomas got it right when He said to Jesus "My Lord and My God". (John 20:28)

 

[samtonga43]

Yes I think I have heard all of those verses which ignore the fact that Jesus was (and still is a man) and has a God (since His Father became His God when He became a man-Ps 22:10) and Jesus laid aside His God "powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men". He became mortal and was given power from God to perform miracles etc.
So no, Jesus is not saying in those places that He is not God.
The claim to be the Son of God was a claim to equality with God.
Thomas got it right when He said to Jesus "My Lord and My God". (John 20:28)

Exactly, Brian.
One word --Trinity.

 

[Subduction Zone]

.

Only if you read literally, as you are doing here. I don't know why you fail to understand this. (Well, I do, but that's for another time).

It's as if you don't understand that the words you have put together have meaning.

Or perhaps you just forgot to insert the words in bold?
"The story in the Bible, like the Garden of Eden story, if read literally, portray your God as evil and incompetent".

That is my point exactly. As I pointed out you respond to what you want people to have said instead of what they actually say. You just did it again.

I only use a literal interpretation to fight a literal interpretation. You do not seem to get that. Just as you did not understand how my use of the " there is no God" quotes would be doing exactly the same as you are.

Don't pretend that you understand something where your false accusations prove that you do not.

Here is a hint. Don't edit posts when you quote them. Technically it is probably against the TOS. When you put bold print into a quote that did not have it that is editing. Quite often the correction to your claim is already there in the parts that you left as they were.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes I think I have heard all of those verses which ignore the fact that Jesus was (and still is a man) and has a God (since His Father became His God when He became a man-Ps 22:10) and Jesus laid aside His God "powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men". He became mortal and was given power from God to perform miracles etc.
So no, Jesus is not saying in those places that He is not God.
The claim to be the Son of God was a claim to equality with God.
Thomas got it right when He said to Jesus "My Lord and My God". (John 20:28)

Actually the best explanation is that Jesus was only a man. And I am well aware of the Trinity argument. That is an idea invented to explain some of the problems with the Bible. It is not an original teaching. It is one of the few points where I will agree with the Jehovah's Witnesses. It was not invented until hundreds of years after the event.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No need to 'try again', SZ. It is obvious (or should be) to all but your good self.

You say that only the Bible says that at best. That is not Jesus saying it.

You state the bolded words as a fact, but you have no proof.

Do you not understand that that statement was an observation? It needs no "proof". That is why context matters. You will not find any confirmation of the Jesus myths outside of the Bible. At best, and even some of these have been shown to be fraudulent, one has claims that Jesus existed and even that he was crucified.

This is why you really need to quit quoting out of context. Using your technique I could claim that there is no God because the Bible says so fifteen times.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am not using poor logic and, if read in context, the Bible does not say that there is no God. The sooner you understand this, the sooner you will begin to make sense, SZ.

That you are using poor logic is shown by your inability to understand what was written. And your penchant for altering quotes confirms it.

What is so humorous is that you once again have to try to change what I said about the fact it says there is no God fifteen times. Oh my!

Are you sure that you are not just an atheist making fun of theists?

 

[Brian2]

Actually the best explanation is that Jesus was only a man. And I am well aware of the Trinity argument. That is an idea invented to explain some of the problems with the Bible. It is not an original teaching. It is one of the few points where I will agree with the Jehovah's Witnesses. It was not invented until hundreds of years after the event.

John 16:12 I still have much to tell you, but you cannot yet bear to hear it. 13However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth.
I guess I see it as one of those things the disciples of Jesus could not bear to hear at that time. They did not have a fully worked out doctrine of the trinity but they were the ones who taught that Jesus is the Son of God and equal to His Father and they were the ones who called Him God and worshipped Him.
If He was a created angel He would not have allowed them to do that and would have said stop, just as the angel in Revelations said to John when he wanted to worship him.
ALL THINGS that have come into existence have come into existence through Him. John 1:3
Jesus was not created and did not come into existence at any time.
He is the ruler of creation. (see Rev 3:14, the first in priority over creation, see Col 1:15,16)
He has the name above all names.(Phil 2:9) He is Jehovah just like His dad and together with the Holy Spirit they are the One God.

 

[Subduction Zone]

John 16:12 I still have much to tell you, but you cannot yet bear to hear it. 13However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth.
I guess I see it as one of those things the disciples of Jesus could not bear to hear at that time. They did not have a fully worked out doctrine of the trinity but they were the ones who taught that Jesus is the Son of God and equal to His Father and they were the ones who called Him God and worshipped Him.
If He was a created angel He would not have allowed them to do that and would have said stop, just as the angel in Revelations said to John when he wanted to worship him.
ALL THINGS that have come into existence have come into existence through Him. John 1:3
Jesus was not created and did not come into existence at any time.
He is the ruler of creation. (see Rev 3:14, the first in priority over creation, see Col 1:15,16)
He has the name above all names.(Phil 2:9) He is Jehovah just like His dad and together with the Holy Spirit they are the One God.

I know what the Bible says. I am not impressed by it at all The Jesus is God claims come almost exclusively from the Gospel of John. Stories tend to grow with the telling. And the last Gospel written has the biggest stories in it. That what is most likely the least accurate gospel is the one that teaches Jesus is God should give you pause.