Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

[samtonga43]

I would just like to say that in my opinion there's too much ad hominem and generalization in certain posts on this thread.

Thomas, I enjoy reading your posts.
You manage to avoid the question-begging and irrationality in others' posts, and you make your points very well..

 

[Trailblazer]

yes the discussion has ended. All is said. I maintain my points.

Let me address two points concerning the manner in which the discussion took place..

this is not very polite, in my view. I don't dream when I post.

I admit it was not polite and I have to apologize, again. Maybe I should not post to Christians or quit before I lose my patience.

this is ad hominem, I think.
Instead of debating the issue, you are debating the motives of the person.

I had ALREADY debated the issue, then I offered my opinion, to which I am entitled.
I can only assume that Christians believe that Jesus is going to return because they WANT to believe it, since Jesus never said He was going to return in the same body, not even once in the entire New Testament.

Also, it's a generalizing remark about Christians.

And it is generally true. I have rarely met a Christian who does not believe that the SAME Jesus is going to return to earth... Problem is, Jesus never SAID He was going to return to earth, and you cannot make it be so even if you want to believe it.

So instead of making a statement, I will ask you some questions:

--- Why do you believe that Jesus is going to return, when your own Bible does not support that belief?
--- Do you think it is possible that you could be wrong about Jesus coming back?
--- Do you realize there could be consequences if you are wrong and Christ already returned?

 

[thomas t]

thank you for your apologies.

So instead of making a statement, I will ask you some questions:

--- Why do you believe that Jesus is going to return, when your own Bible does not support that belief?
--- Do you think it is possible that you could be wrong about Jesus coming back?
--- Do you realize there could be consequences if you are wrong and Christ already returned?

as I said, Bible says so in my opinion in said Bible verse (1 Corinthians 15:23). I'm not going to discuss that again.

Let's put it that way: When the Bible frankly states in a plain sentence such as "at his [Jesus's] coming", I am not going to debate if this is actually about Jesus' coming.
It's like "when the people meet" is really about the people meeting. And I'm not going to debate if it's really about the people meeting.
This is what the sentence plainly says.
Now, what happens if "when people meet" did not mean "when people meet" but rather "Astra is not quite as safe"... then I can't do anything.... then I am mislead simply.
Same with Bible verses.
This is the analogy to consider, since at #639 you claimed that the verse was not about Jesus to begin with.

I had ALREADY debated the issue, then I offered my opinion, to which I am entitled.
I can only assume that Christians believe that Jesus is going to return because they WANT to believe it,

If you say "I assume that Christians believe so because they WANT to believe it", this is discussing motives as opposed to deabting the topic. Why change the topic? There is no reason to do so as I see it.

Edited to add blue sentence

 

[Michael Archangel]

Here is something most Christians don't know:

Jesus promised no less than FOUR times in the gospels that he would return to earth and his apostles would live to see it, yet he never showed up.

Paul believed fervently that Jesus would return in his lifetime:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then WE who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." 1 Thessolonians 4:16-17

Now Paul may have put this idea into the heads of the gospel writers when they started writing the gospels. They had Jesus make these four prophesies that he would return before the apostles died:

“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

For me, this is the one that cannot be excused away with rationalizations like "Jesus was referring to the future generation", or "Jesus was referring to God's time which could be thousands of years in the future". We have Jesus referring directly to the people listening to him when he made that failed prophecy "some of you standing here will not taste death until you see me return"

...they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.“ (Matthew 24: 25-34)

“Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…“ (Mark 13:26-30)

Here in Chap 10 Jesus is giving his apostles instructions on how they should conduct themselves when he sends them out to do God's work

Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. (Matthew 10:23)

Naturally Jesus never showed up. Why? Because we can assume he never said he would return--this was all invention by the gospel writers probably based on Paul's belief Jesus would return and Paul would live to see it. There are five rationalizations Christians have come up with for Jesus' no-show. All are patently ridiculous but you can read them in the link below:

Jesus’ Failed Prophecy About His Return

They are reborn to damnation.
JESUS RETURNED IN HIS SECOND COMING. HE IS HERE NOW. I PROVED IT. Please watch.

 

[Trailblazer]

Let's put it that way: When the Bible frankly states in a plain sentence such as "at his [Jesus's] coming", I am not going to debate if this is actually about Jesus' coming.

1 Corinthians 15 King James Version (KJV)

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The problem is that the verse above does not say second coming, and it does not say coming in the same body, so you are making assumptions. In other words, you are interpreting the verse a certain way and it does not necessarily mean what you believe it means; but since you already believe Jesus is coming back to earth in the same bidy you interpret the verse with confirmation bias.

Another problem is that’s Paul, but I do not see that anywhere in the Bible where Jesus Himself says He is coming back; all I see is Jesus saying He is NOT coming back to this world (John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30)

If you say "I assume that Christians believe so because they WANT to believe it", this is discussing motives as opposed to debating the topic. Why change the topic? There is no reason to do so as I see it.

Fair enough, but it seems to me that you WANT to believe Jesus is coming back. Although there could be other reasons you believe it I cannot understand why you would since Jesus said His work was finished here and He is NOT coming back to this world (John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30)

I just don’t understand how you can blow off all those verses and then say the Bible is inerrant.

 

[Trailblazer]

JESUS RETURNED IN HIS SECOND COMING.

I believe that the Spirit of Christ already returned, but that happened back in the 19th century. It returned by way of Baha'u'llah who was the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth. Jesus was a Comforter, Baha'u'llah was another Comforter.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

[thomas t]

The problem is that the verse above does not say second coming, and it does not say coming in the same body, so you are making assumptions. In other words, you are interpreting the verse a certain way

while I don't dicuss with you if after the first coming another coming could be called the second one...

let me point out that the red passage is putting words in my mouth. I never made assumptions about the body Jesus will have at his second coming.

 

[Trailblazer]

while I don't dicuss with you if after the first coming another coming could be called the second one...

let me point out that the red passage is putting words in my mouth. I never made assumptions about the body Jesus will have at his second coming.

Trailblazer said: The problem is that the verse above does not say second coming, and it does not say coming in the same body, so you are making assumptions. In other words, you are interpreting the verse a certain way.

But if it was the same Jesus it would be the same body, even it it was the glorified body that Christians believe Jesus will have.... And that was my point.... It HAS to be Jesus, the SAME man Jesus.

I do not believe that it was ever the same man Jesus who was slated by God to return to earth; I believe it was the Christ Spirit, the Holy Spirit, that was slated to return in another man with another name, called Baha'u'llah....

Baha'is believe there will be more Messengers after Baha'u'llah, but we do not believe they will come in the same body as Baha'ullah.... The physical body once dead remains dead, and the soul ascends to heaven and takes on a spiritual body. It never comes back to earth after that, but the Holy Spirit, the Christ Spirit, returns to earth in every age in a new physical body. It is the same Spirit of God returning in every age, just a different man in a different body with a different mission on earth.

“The Bearers of the Trust of God are made manifest unto the peoples of the earth as the Exponents of a new Cause and the Revealers of a new Message. Inasmuch as these Birds of the celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible Faith, they, therefore, are regarded as one soul and the same person. For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of God, and all partake of the fruit of the same Tree of Oneness.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 50

 

[Brian2]

But if it was the same Jesus it would be the same body, even it it was the glorified body that Christians believe Jesus will have.... And that was my point.... It HAS to be Jesus, the SAME man Jesus.

It seems that you should now realise why Christians say that it has to be the same Jesus who returns. That is because the Bible says those exact words.
Acts 1:11“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”

I do not believe that it was ever the same man Jesus who was slated by God to return to earth; I believe it was the Christ Spirit, the Holy Spirit, that was slated to return in another man with another name, called Baha'u'llah....

It seems that here you are saying that you don't believe what is in the Bible, but instead believe what Baha'u'llah wrote.
Baha'u'llah must be teaching not to believe the Bible but to believe him instead.

 

[Brian2]

They are reborn to damnation.
JESUS RETURNED IN HIS SECOND COMING. HE IS HERE NOW. I PROVED IT. Please watch.

The Jehovah's Witnesses say that Jesus came back in spiritually in 1914 and they point to World War 1 as evidence.
Maybe it is best to believe what the Bible tells us about the return of Jesus.
He is coming in the clouds in power and glory and with His holy angels and every eye will see Him.

 

[Trailblazer]

It seems that you should now realise why Christians say that it has to be the same Jesus who returns. That is because the Bible says those exact words.
Acts 1:11“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”

But it is not Jesus saying that and it does not say the same body of Jesus. Baha’u’llah was the same Spirit of Jesus who came back in the same way that Jesus ascended, from the heaven of the Will of God.

Regarding those verses, I just now replied to Redemptionsong on another thread, so I will copy what I just posted to him:

Redemptionsong said: This information tells us that Jesus was not just a soul ascending to heaven. In Acts 1:10,11. it says, 'And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.'

Would the disciples have seen a soul ascending into heaven? Clearly not. They saw the risen Jesus ascend into heaven. And it follows that if the risen Jesus ascended then Daniel is referring to Jesus when he says, one 'like the Son of man' appeared before the 'Ancient of days' [Daniel 7:13,14.].

Trailblazer said: The life and death process for Jesus was no different from any other human being. When we are alive in a physical body, our physical body has a soul that animates it, but after our physical body dies, our soul leaves the physical body and is resurrected in a spiritual body.

In Acts 1:9-11, Jesus was a spiritual body with a soul ascending into heaven.

Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

The disciples were staring up into the sky. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky. The two men then wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky and said that the same Jesus who was taken up to heaven will return as He went to heaven. It does not say that the disciples saw a physical body go up.

Jesus ascended in a spiritual body, not on a physical body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since the disciples could not see the spiritual body the way the angels could. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits.

Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of the human temple. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Baha’u’llah descended in like manner, from the heaven of the will of God.

#244 Trailblazer

It seems that here you are saying that you don't believe what is in the Bible, but instead believe what Baha'u'llah wrote.
Baha'u'llah must be teaching not to believe the Bible but to believe him instead.

No, I believe what the Bible says and the Baha’u’llah did not teach me that. The Bible says that Jesus finished His work and Jesus is not coming back to the world.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

That means that “this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.” cannot mean the same physical body of Jesus, it has to mean the same Spirit of Jesus.

I have been posting mostly to Christians these days so I also have a new interpretation of these verses that you believe mean Jesus is coming back. I save all my stuff so it is a simple copy/paste.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus did say He would come again, but Jesus did not say ‘how’ He would come so there is no reason to think this one verse is Jesus saying He will come to earth again in the same physical body He had when He walked the earth 2,000 years ago, especially in light of all the other verses that contradict that (John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30).

"and receive you unto myself" is obviously about the Spirit of Jesus, not His physical body, and please note that Jesus did not ever say He would come again and ‘do’ anything on earth that would require a body, like building a Kingdom of God on earth, as most Christians believe Jesus will do.

Jesus did not say "my body will come again." The spirit of Jesus did come again, in the Person of Baha'u'llah, and that was what Jesus promised to send. Jesus was a Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit and Baha’u’llah was another Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit.

John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

"and receive you unto myself" is obviously about the Spirit of Jesus, not about His physical body, because there would be no way that the disciples Jesus was speaking to could receive the body of Jesus on earth since they were no longer living on earth. Where Jesus was in heaven and that is where the disciples also are, so that is where Jesus received them. That is why Jesus said that He went to prepare a place for them, a place in heaven, not on earth.

John 14:3 is one of the most misunderstood verses in the New Testament so it is no wonder the Bible commentaries do not agree on what it means.

 

[Trailblazer]

He is coming in the clouds in power and glory and with His holy angels and every eye will see Him.

How would it be possible for every eye to see Him unless the Bible has errors?

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

It was the Son of man who would come in the clouds in power and glory and with His holy angels.
The Son of man in the clouds cannot be Jesus as I proved in this thread:

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

Jesus and the Son of man who would come in the glory of his Father are two separate individuals:

Look carefully at Mark 8:38. Look at how the verse is separated by a semicolon and Jesus says “also” indicating that the Son of man is someone other than Himself who would come in the glory of his Father with the holy angels

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Again, in Matthew 16:27, Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father. Jesus did not say “I will come in the glory of my Father.”

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Look carefully at Luke 9:26. Look at how Jesus separated Himself from the Son of man (ashamed of me, of him shall), and then Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in his own glory and in His Father’s glory. Jesus did not say that the Son of man will come in my glory.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

 

[thomas t]

But if it was the same Jesus it would be the same body, even it it was the glorified body that Christians believe Jesus will have.... And that was my point....

No to the redded part. I mean not necessarily.

So I stay with my opinion: I said nothing about a physical body and you were putting words in my mouth. I didn't even think of this when I wrote my post...

 

[Brian2]

But it is not Jesus saying that and it does not say the same body of Jesus. Baha’u’llah was the same Spirit of Jesus who came back in the same way that Jesus ascended, from the heaven of the Will of God.

We both know the Baha'u'llah is not Jesus. You tell me that all the time. So that means that Jesus did not come back and you are doing your bit for the Baha'i cause by doing what all Baha'is need to do, that is, say that the Bible is in error. It does not matter if Jesus said that or an angel or an apostles said that, you are teaching that it is wrong.
Acts 1:11“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”

 

[Trailblazer]

No to the redded part. I mean not necessarily.

So I stay with my opinion: I said nothing about a physical body and you were putting words in my mouth. I didn't even think of this when I wrote my post...

Trailblazer said: But if it was the same Jesus it would be the same body, even it it was the glorified body that Christians believe Jesus will have.... And that was my point....

If you do not want me to guess then can you can you speak for yourself?

How do you believe Jesus is going to return, in a body? If so, what kind of body?
If the body would not necessarily be the same body, would it be a different body? How would it be different?
If you do not believe Jesus is going to return in a body, how would He return, in spirit?

 

[Trailblazer]

We both know the Baha'u'llah is not Jesus. You tell me that all the time. So that means that Jesus did not come back and you are doing your bit for the Baha'i cause by doing what all Baha'is need to do, that is, say that the Bible is in error. It does not matter if Jesus said that or an angel or an apostles said that, you are teaching that it is wrong.
Acts 1:11“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”

It matters a helluva lot who said it because Paul had no authority to speak for Jesus, if or how He would return to earth.
It also matters that this is just one verse in the Bible that you are basing your entire belief system upon, a verse that is contradicted by other verses (John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30) and there are also other verses wherein Jesus said He was not coming back to earth, and no verses where jesus said that He was coming back to earth.

But for anyone who is going to lend credence to Acts 1:19-11, it matters how Jesus was seen going up to heaven, whether in a physical body or in a spiritual body or in spirit. You cannot just assume Jesus ascended in a physical body when the verses do not say that. "Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven." But how was Jesus taken from you? You believe that a physical body went up into the sky to heaven, but heaven is not a place in the sky.

All Christians do not believe that Jesus is going to return to earth, so you can retain your Christian beliefs and realize that Jesus is not coming back to earth. You do not have to become a Baha'i, not unless you believe that Baha'u'llah was who He claimed to be, because that is the criteria for becoming a Baha'i.

Just bear in mind that Baha'is do not believe that Baha'u'llah replaced Jesus, we believe that Baha'u'llah came to continue with the work that Jesus started. Baha'u'llah came to bring what will be necessary to build the Kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven. Jesus laid the necessary groundwork for the Kingdom, and then Jesus asked us to to pray that the Kingdom would come. Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Jesus built the foundation for the Kingdom by transforming the hearts of men and sanctifying the souls of the sinners, but it was never part of Jesus' mission to build the Kingdom of God on earth.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Baha'is believe in Jesus and what we believe about Him in no way contradicts what is in the Bible, although it contradicts with 'some' of the man-made Christian doctrines.

 

[Skywalker]

It matters a helluva lot who said it because Paul had no authority to speak for Jesus, if or how He would return to earth.
It also matters that this is just one verse in the Bible that you are basing your entire belief system upon, a verse that is contradicted by other verses (John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30) and there are also other verses wherein Jesus said He was not coming back to earth, and no verses where jesus said that He was coming back to earth.

But for anyone who is going to lend credence to Acts 1:19-11, it matters how Jesus was seen going up to heaven, whether in a physical body or in a spiritual body or in spirit. You cannot just assume Jesus ascended in a physical body when the verses do not say that. "Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven." But how was Jesus taken from you? You believe that a physical body went up into the sky to heaven, but heaven is not a place in the sky.

All Christians do not believe that Jesus is going to return to earth, so you can retain your Christian beliefs and realize that Jesus is not coming back to earth. You do not have to become a Baha'i, not unless you believe that Baha'u'llah was who He claimed to be, because that is the criteria for becoming a Baha'i.

Just bear in mind that Baha'is do not believe that Baha'u'llah replaced Jesus, we believe that Baha'u'llah came to continue with the work that Jesus started. Baha'u'llah came to bring what will be necessary to build the Kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven. Jesus laid the necessary groundwork for the Kingdom, and then Jesus asked us to to pray that the Kingdom would come. Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Jesus built the foundation for the Kingdom by transforming the hearts of men and sanctifying the souls of the sinners, but it was never part of Jesus' mission to build the Kingdom of God on earth.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Baha'is believe in Jesus and what we believe about Him in no way contradicts what is in the Bible, although it contradicts with 'some' of the man-made Christian doctrines.

Jesus never said that he would return in the first century. It's in The Bible. Was Christ Mistaken About His Second Coming?

Concerning Jesus, Russell wrote:

“He certainly thought that his second coming would occur in clouds of glory before the death of all the people who were living at that time. There are a great many texts that prove that.”

He then cites Matthew 10:23 and 16:28 as examples (Enger 1961, 592-593).

Russell’s problem (in addition to his basic atheism) was, of course, that he failed to recognize that words may be used in different senses. They may be used literally, or they may be employed figuratively.

When one encounters a passage that speaks of a “coming” of Christ, he must examine the context to determine the correct usage of the term in that particular setting.

Now, what are the facts of this matter?

First, it is quite clear that Christ did prophesy that he would literally come again (Matt. 25:31). His coming was to be: personal (1 Thes.4:16); visible (Acts 1:11); sudden and unexpected (1 Thes. 5:2, 3); glorious (Matt. 25:31); victorious (2 Thes. 1:7-10); and terminal (1 Cor. 15:24).

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus never said that he would return in the first century. It's in The Bible. Was Christ Mistaken About His Second Coming?

When one encounters a passage that speaks of a “coming” of Christ, he must examine the context to determine the correct usage of the term in that particular setting.

Now, what are the facts of this matter?

First, it is quite clear that Christ did prophesy that he would literally come again (Matt. 25:31). His coming was to be: personal (1 Thes.4:16); visible (Acts 1:11); sudden and unexpected (1 Thes. 5:2, 3); glorious (Matt. 25:31); victorious (2 Thes. 1:7-10); and terminal (1 Cor. 15:24).

These are not the facts of this matter. These are just a man's interpretation of several verses which in my opinion is a totally incorrect interpretation. It starts off with Matt. 25:31 which is not about Jesus and it is not a literal coming with angels or a throne.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.

His interpretation only gets worse from there when he says it is terminal.

24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

This is not about the end of the world, it is about the end of an age. The end of an age and the beginning of a new age came when the Spirit of Christ returned in 1844.

 

[Skywalker]

When one encounters a passage that speaks of a “coming” of Christ, he must examine the context to determine the correct usage of the term in that particular setting.

Now, what are the facts of this matter?

First, it is quite clear that Christ did prophesy that he would literally come again (Matt. 25:31). His coming was to be: personal (1 Thes.4:16); visible (Acts 1:11); sudden and unexpected (1 Thes. 5:2, 3); glorious (Matt. 25:31); victorious (2 Thes. 1:7-10); and terminal (1 Cor. 15:24).

These are not the facts of this matter. These are just a man's interpretation of several verses which in my opinion is a totally incorrect interpretation. It starts off with Matt. 25:31 which is not about Jesus and it is not a literal coming with angels or a throne.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.

His interpretation only gets worse from there when he says it is terminal.

24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

This is not about the end of the world, it is about the end of an age. The end of an age and the beginning of a new age came when the Spirit of Christ returned in 1844.

Matthew 19:28 says

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

 

[Trailblazer]

Matthew 19:28 says

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The Son of man who shall sit in the throne of his glory is not Jesus.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

The gospel of the kingdom had been preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations by the mid 19th century, and then the End of the Age came when the Bab appeared in 1844.