Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

[thomas t]

How do you believe Jesus is going to return, in a body? If so, what kind of body?
If the body would not necessarily be the same body, would it be a different body? How would it be different?
If you do not believe Jesus is going to return in a body, how would He return, in spirit?

Trailblazer, I don't have answers to 1 and 2. I'm neutral here.
3 is a question that we had already, ... so I'd like to leave it at this point, if I may?
Thank you.

 

[samtonga43]

The Son of man who shall sit in the throne of his glory is not Jesus.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

The gospel of the kingdom had been preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations by the mid 19th century, and then the End of the Age came when the Bab appeared in 1844.

Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

John 5: 26, 27 NIV

 

[Trailblazer]

Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

John 5: 26, 27 NIV

God gave Jesus, the Son of God, the authority to judge during the Christian Dispensation, and that is what John 5: 26, 27 refers to.

All Dispensations have a beginning and and end. As the return of the Son of Man in the clouds, Baha'u'llah, the Glory of God, was given the authority to judge during this new dispensation, the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

 

[samtonga43]

God gave Jesus, the Son of God, the authority to judge during the Christian Dispensation, and that is what John 5: 26, 27 refers to.

Do you have evidence of this?

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you have evidence of this?

The evidence is in the New Testament.

 

[samtonga43]

Where?

 

[Trailblazer]

Where?

I lost track of what we were discussing. If you can you reiterate and be specific then maybe I can answer.

 

[Riders]

Jesus did not come back when he said he would end of story............

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus did not come back when he said he would end of story............

Jesus never said that "He" would come back; He said that the Son of Man would come in the clouds, and that is exactly what happened.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

 

[samtonga43]

I lost track of what we were discussing. If you can you reiterate and be specific then maybe I can answer.

Where in the N.T. is the evidence that John 5: 26, 27 refers to the "Christian Dispensation"?
In fact, where is your evidence that there IS such an entity as the "Christian Dispensation"?

 

[samtonga43]

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

Jesus Christ, Son of God and Son of Man.

"Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man".

John 5: 26, 27 NIV

 

[Trailblazer]

Where in the N.T. is the evidence that John 5: 26, 27 refers to the "Christian Dispensation"?

Obviously, it refers to the Christian Dispensation because it is contained in the gospels .

In fact, where is your evidence that there IS such an entity as the "Christian Dispensation"?

I do not need evidence to prove that a period of time exists that is a divinely appointed order or age.
History attests to this.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus Christ, Son of God and Son of Man.

"Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man".

John 5: 26, 27 NIV

No, Jesus is not who is coming in the clouds of heaven to Judge anyone on earth because Jesus said His work was finished on here on earth and He was no more in the world.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

 

[samtonga43]

Wrong thread.

 

[samtonga43]

No, Jesus is not who is coming in the clouds of heaven to Judge anyone on earth because Jesus said His work was finished on here on earth and He was no more in the world.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

His work WAS finished. At the end of the working day do many of us not say "Finished!"?

What is the meaning of the word 'world' in this context? Do try to avoid being too literal.

 

[Trailblazer]

Wrong thread.

Why is it the wrong thread?

 

[Trailblazer]

His work WAS finished. At the end of the working day do many of us not say "Finished!"?

Maybe we do, but Jesus said more than that. Jesus was very specific when He said:

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

That means that Jesus had no more work to do for God when He left this world, and since there are NO VERSES that say that Jesus would have any more work to do in the future, there is NO REASON to believe that Jesus would have any more work to do in the future.

What is the meaning of the word 'world' in this context? Do try to avoid being too literal.

The definition of world is the earth, together with all of its countries, peoples, and natural features.
There is no reason to believe that Jesus meant anything other than what it says in the definition.

• the world seeth me no more

• I am no more in the world

If you want to maintain the belief that Jesus will return but remain in the clouds above the earth that your choice, but what would be the purpose of that? Moreover, Jesus could never do what the Bible says the Son of man will do when He returns from up on the clouds. Of course, since you are a Christian you can make anything work, just to maintain your belief that Jesus is 'coming back.' It does not have to make any sense or even be supported by the Bible.

 

[samtonga43]

Maybe we do, but Jesus said more than that. Jesus was very specific when He said:

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

That means that Jesus had no more work to do for God when He left this world, and since there are NO VERSES that say that Jesus would have any more work to do in the future, there is NO REASON to believe that Jesus would have any more work to do in the future.

There are many things that Jesus did not say. He said nothing about an extra dispensation, for example.

The definition of world is the earth, together with all of its countries, peoples, and natural features.

"World" (κοσμος) has a number of meanings in Scripture. It can mean "every human being without exception" and it can mean "non-believing humanity" (John 17:9)-- to name just two.

 

[Trailblazer]

There are many things that Jesus did not say. He said nothing about an extra dispensation, for example.

Jesus did not use the word dispensation because that word was not in common usage back in those times, so nobody would have even understood what Jesus meant by that. But Jesus did say there were many things left to say and do in the future, things that could not be said back then because people were not yet ready to hear them… And since we know that Jesus was not going to be the one doing them (John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30) we know it was going to be somebody else who Jesus referred to as the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth.

John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Baha’u’llah did everything Jesus said the Comforter would do.

The Church taught Christians to believe that the Comforter and Spirit of truth were the Holy Spirit that Jesus sent on the day of Pentecost to live inside of them, but (1) the Holy Spirit that was sent at Pentecost was only sent to the disciples, and (2) a spirit living inside of people could not do any of the following things that are in John 14, 15 and 16; only a man could do those things, and that is why the verses are prefaced by what “he” will do.

• Teach you all things
• Call to remembrance what Jesus said
• Testify of Jesus
• Glorify Jesus, receive of Jesus, and shew it unto you
• Guide you into all truth
• Speak what He hears and shew you things to come
• Reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment

Baha’u’llah did all these things and as a result of His revelation the world will be reproved the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. No spirit living inside of Christians is going to do this.

"World" (κοσμος) has a number of meanings in Scripture. It can mean "every human being without exception" and it can mean "non-believing humanity" (John 17:9)-- to name just two.

What the word world means depends upon the context in which the word is used.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Obviously Jesus was referring to the earth, because that is where Jesus was when He said that, where Jesus would no longer be, and thus where Jesus would no longer be seen. The verse would not make any sense if you attributed any other meaning to the word "world."

 

[samtonga43]

Are you saying that, when the Holy Spirit came to rest upon Jesus at His baptism, that Spirit was Bahaullah?