jesus helped how??

[tomarnold]

Jesus brought the Gospel to humanity which saves those who believe from any pain or torment in the afterlife. This life is only a test, and wide is the road to destruction; many will not pass- so the fact that lawlessness is abundant is expected (Matt 24:12).

Also in the natural, God brings humility to His people and gives them a mandate to give to the poor and help the needy. In Western nations the homeless shelters and food for the poor programs are majority Christian. There are also countless Christian ministries which aid to the hurting worldwide- including third world countries. This type of selflessness is a reflection of the love of Christ.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Jesus brought the Gospel to humanity which saves those who believe from any pain or torment in the afterlife. This life is only a test, and wide is the road to destruction; many will not pass- so the fact that lawlessness is abundant is expected (Matt 24:12).

Do you have any objective reason for believing so?

In Western nations the homeless shelters and food for the poor programs are majority Christian.

While this is true, the reason could be no more than than the fact that Christianity is the majority religion. But, they do do these things, and it's good.

There are also countless Christian ministries which aid to the hurting worldwide- including third world countries.

But at what expense? I've heard stories (and right now they're just that, stories) about Christian ministries in third world countries not helping unless the people convert to Christianity. I don't know how factual this is, but I think it's something that deserves investigating, especially if Christians are going to use it as a boon to their morality.

This type of selflessness is a reflection of the love of Christ.

And yet, at least in the United States, conservative Christians spend much time and energy in activities and speeches that are hateful, bigoted, and intolerant. And they believe this is their mandate from their god.

 

[ellenjanuary]

The whole problem here is that you're singing out of the wrong hymnal.

[youtube]Ie9sY_zp9xg[/youtube]
YouTube - The Doobie Brothers 1996 #2-Jesus Is Just Alright

That's better.

 

[tomarnold]

Do you have any objective reason for believing so?

Well just based on Creation we can see things about God's character, one of them being that He is a cause and effect God. Because of the natural laws He put in place we do not attempt to go head on with other cars, or attempt to leap off tall buildings- because we know that it will inflict damage. It is also easy for a logical mind to assume that our moral actions work in cause and effect- since everything else does.

If we do wrong we should be judged, and we will stand before our Creator- it is not logical to say that the God who created all that wee see and know forgot about us or created us all in vein. God has a purpose and a goal for that which He created.

Now as to why Christ specifically is the way God has allowed us to escape the judgement we deserve, this is His clear plan. To those truly seeking this will become evident, but to those who refuse repentance they cannot be convinced.

While this is true, the reason could be no more than than the fact that Christianity is the majority religion. But, they do do these things, and it's good.

It's a clear cut mandate of the New Testament. Trust me people in this world (not just the West) don't simply have a natural tendacy to give to the poor- the rich like their money.

But at what expense? I've heard stories (and right now they're just that, stories) about Christian ministries in third world countries not helping unless the people convert to Christianity. I don't know how factual this is, but I think it's something that deserves investigating, especially if Christians are going to use it as a boon to their morality.

At what expense? Your "stories" are either invented by people with an agenda, or are some rare exception being presented as if it were a rule, or both.

And yet, at least in the United States, conservative Christians spend much time and energy in activities and speeches that are hateful, bigoted, and intolerant. And they believe this is their mandate from their god.

What would be an example of this?

 

[BIG D]

How can you determine the greatest evil?

If you can't see that there is a difference between now, and the distant past, then there really is no need to debate. The majority of what you're talking about effects only a very small percent of the world. Ancient wars were quite different.

And the majority of this has nothing to do with Jesus.

If you only focus on the bad, of course it's all going to look horrible. Maybe focusing on the good would show you something different. Such as the massive charity programs. Maybe a world community that tries to help stop various atrocities.

ok., l will say the GREATEST murder/killing/rape/destruction of all time...WWII did not affect a lot of people??? holy moly!!!!...about 60 million[[world wide]] DEAD...hundreds of thousands homeless/wounded/etc!!!!do you deny wars/murder/rape/theft has gone away???thousands murdered in Rwanda/Serbia/Sudan/etc??lots of charity does not erase thousands of deaths every year and it does not mean the world is better..but we do know for a FACT, that the world had its greatest killing AFTER he came and it continues, on and on...

 

[BIG D]

How can you determine the greatest evil?

If you can't see that there is a difference between now, and the distant past, then there really is no need to debate. The majority of what you're talking about effects only a very small percent of the world. Ancient wars were quite different.

And the majority of this has nothing to do with Jesus.

If you only focus on the bad, of course it's all going to look horrible. Maybe focusing on the good would show you something different. Such as the massive charity programs. Maybe a world community that tries to help stop various atrocities.

and I will say, murder/rape/and robbery still go on EVERYWHERE...and that doesn't include the jealousy/hate/anger that STILL go on....sure seems like nothing has changed, does it??

 

[tomarnold]

and I will say, murder/rape/and robbery still go on EVERYWHERE...and that doesn't include the jealousy/hate/anger that STILL go on....sure seems like nothing has changed, does it??

This world crucified the Christ, the wickedness of this world is something He knows very intimately.

All the unrighteousness will not be done away with until He returns- which is soon.

 

[fallingblood]

and I will say, murder/rape/and robbery still go on EVERYWHERE...and that doesn't include the jealousy/hate/anger that STILL go on....sure seems like nothing has changed, does it??

So since there is still murder, rape, and robbery, that is your definition that things haven't changed? You don't even care to address the other aspects that I mentioned?

Do the strongest powers in the world issue nation wide persecutions? Not at all. Do the strongest powers on earth go on brutal wars that involve entire countries? Not at all. Sure, there have been a few occasions, but on a global scale, it has drastically when down.

You continue to ignore where I have said things have occurred. So my only conclusion is that you want to make a baseless attack against Jesus and thus Christianity.

More so, where does Jesus ever state that everything is going to change? He doesn't.

 

[fallingblood]

ok., l will say the GREATEST murder/killing/rape/destruction of all time...WWII did not affect a lot of people??? holy moly!!!!...about 60 million[[world wide]] DEAD...hundreds of thousands homeless/wounded/etc!!!!do you deny wars/murder/rape/theft has gone away???thousands murdered in Rwanda/Serbia/Sudan/etc??lots of charity does not erase thousands of deaths every year and it does not mean the world is better..but we do know for a FACT, that the world had its greatest killing AFTER he came and it continues, on and on...

Did I say WWII did not effect a lot of people? No I didn't. But again, things have changed even since then. If you can't see that, then you have to be ignoring the facts.

All you're doing is making a baseless attack on a religion? Why? Especially when the wars you are talking about have, for the most part, nothing to do with Christians? Jesus never said that after him everything would be perfect.

So I really don't see what point you're trying to make accept trying to demonize a religion.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Well just based on Creation we can see things about God's character, one of them being that He is a cause and effect God. Because of the natural laws He put in place we do not attempt to go head on with other cars, or attempt to leap off tall buildings- because we know that it will inflict damage. It is also easy for a logical mind to assume that our moral actions work in cause and effect- since everything else does.

You're arguing like it's assumed that everyone believes in your god and that he created everything. I am an atheist and a Buddhist, so I have no need to believe such. Science has shown that no supernatural agent was necessary in the creation of the universe. God is not necessary to explain these things in a logical and rational manner.

If we do wrong we should be judged, and we will stand before our Creator- it is not logical to say that the God who created all that wee see and know forgot about us or created us all in vein. God has a purpose and a goal for that which He created.

Again, it's more logical to believe that such a god doesn't exist at all. Why should we be judged due to wrong actions? Why not just learn from those mistakes to do better next time? Such a wrathful god is not one that I would want to worship. I did most of my life, I don't need to anymore.

Now as to why Christ specifically is the way God has allowed us to escape the judgement we deserve, this is His clear plan. To those truly seeking this will become evident, but to those who refuse repentance they cannot be convinced.

Again, you are presupposing that your view is the only correct one, without offering any evidence that it is so. Christian philosophy stands in stark contrast to reality. I want you to offer me evidence that your particular viewpoint is right, in the real world, besides what the Bible says. What objective reasons do you have for believing this to be the case?

It's a clear cut mandate of the New Testament. Trust me people in this world (not just the West) don't simply have a natural tendacy to give to the poor- the rich like their money.

This is true. But, I'd rather give to help the poor out of my own free will, than because I think I'm going to be rewarded by some deity for my actions. That in itself is a form of selfishness, which is not altruistic or virtuous.

At what expense? Your "stories" are either invented by people with an agenda, or are some rare exception being presented as if it were a rule, or both.

This is quite possibly the case, which is why I stated such in my post.

What would be an example of this?

I can point you to many Christian websites where this is the case, most of them fundamentalist conservative American varieties.

 

[BIG D]

So since there is still murder, rape, and robbery, that is your definition that things haven't changed? You don't even care to address the other aspects that I mentioned?

Do the strongest powers in the world issue nation wide persecutions? Not at all. Do the strongest powers on earth go on brutal wars that involve entire countries? Not at all. Sure, there have been a few occasions, but on a global scale, it has drastically when down.

You continue to ignore where I have said things have occurred. So my only conclusion is that you want to make a baseless attack against Jesus and thus Christianity.

More so, where does Jesus ever state that everything is going to change? He doesn't.

simply put, since we've had many, many wars[[murder/rapes]]/genocides/etc[[remember the war to end all wars<>WWI]]AFTER jesus came, including the greatest of all[[WWII]], and we still have all these evils, I think it is more than fair to say, the world has NOT gotten better...we can say for sure WWII caused the greatest of these AFTER JESUS CAME...

 

[BIG D]

This world crucified the Christ, the wickedness of this world is something He knows very intimately.

All the unrighteousness will not be done away with until He returns- which is soon.

this is another thing, he's coming SOON???how many times have we heard this??why should he come now and not 1939, or 1955,1967,1972??????

 

[gzusfrk]

simply put, since we've had many, many wars[[murder/rapes]]/genocides/etc[[remember the war to end all wars<>WWI]]AFTER jesus came, including the greatest of all[[WWII]], and we still have all these evils, I think it is more than fair to say, the world has NOT gotten better...we can say for sure WWII caused the greatest of these AFTER JESUS CAME...

No for the most part He doesnt mess with mans ways,( called free will). Jesus came to link man to a God so that we may be able to get to Gods kindgom.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

***MOD ADVISORY***

Several off-topic trolling posts and responses have been removed. Please stay on topic and be civil.

 

[fallingblood]

simply put, since we've had many, many wars[[murder/rapes]]/genocides/etc[[remember the war to end all wars<>WWI]]AFTER jesus came, including the greatest of all[[WWII]], and we still have all these evils, I think it is more than fair to say, the world has NOT gotten better...we can say for sure WWII caused the greatest of these AFTER JESUS CAME...

I still don't know if WWII was the greatest of all. You would have to show evidence of that being true.

And just the fact that war and the like have continued does not suggest that the world has not gotten better. If that is your sole argument, then it lacks horribly. As I've explained, and as has not been addressed, we have seen a massive amount of charity work. We see nations trying to help those stuck in warfare and the like.

More so, how does this show that Jesus didn't help? Jesus never claimed that he was going to end all warfare and the like. He didn't even state he was going to make the world a better place. So I think the entire point of the thread to be based on a very sandy foundation.

 

[tomarnold]

You're arguing like it's assumed that everyone believes in your god and that he created everything. I am an atheist and a Buddhist, so I have no need to believe such. Science has shown that no supernatural agent was necessary in the creation of the universe. God is not necessary to explain these things in a logical and rational manner.

Everyone who has died does believe in the God I describe, that much is for sure. The very fact that we exist at all is evidence of a Creator. Our own logic and all science that is testable shows us that nothing comes from nowhere. The only explaination for our existence is a Creator which is altogether outside of the laws and existence that we know of. God created this whole thing to show us His majesty and greatness, and to many of us we awe before the Creator.

To others, though, they have convinced themselves they are wiser than the Creator and have no need for His rulership, being deceived by the prideful fallen angel that we have come to call satan.

 

[tomarnold]

this is another thing, he's coming SOON???how many times have we heard this??why should he come now and not 1939, or 1955,1967,1972??????

How old are you that you heard this in 1939 first?

How many times have you heard this? And where from?

Also this is when the world will finally have true peace, which is why this is very related to the topic.

 

[ellenjanuary]

Very sandy.

Two million died at Stalingrad because of two men. Two. Hitler and Stalin. How many died at Troy because of Paris and Agamemnon? People keep being dumb, what I'm saying; no one wise man has ever made the world wise. But the world is a better place for the teachings of Christ. The laptop I'm running my neck on can trace its family tree back to Gutenberg's Bible. Worldwide communication may help alleviate worldwide ignorance before another worldwide war. And that's a good thing.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Everyone who has died does believe in the God I describe, that much is for sure. The very fact that we exist at all is evidence of a Creator. Our own logic and all science that is testable shows us that nothing comes from nowhere. The only explaination for our existence is a Creator which is altogether outside of the laws and existence that we know of. God created this whole thing to show us His majesty and greatness, and to many of us we awe before the Creator.

To others, though, they have convinced themselves they are wiser than the Creator and have no need for His rulership, being deceived by the prideful fallen angel that we have come to call satan.

If your god created all things, and he created man, then he was the one who gave man his ability to reason, which is, arguably, what sets him apart from the other animals. If this is the case, then he gave us our minds to use them. If, by using them, we realize that there is no god, then he either done a bad job of giving us those minds, or a bad job of revealing himself in nature. Our very existence is all YOU need to prove that there was a god who created us. But, when we can clearly see in reality that this is not the case, then that says alot about your god. If it's so clear that he exists, then there should be many more people who believe in him, as his existence is self-evident. But this is not the case. And there's another problem. Even if creation itself proved a divine creator, what makes you think that it's your particular god who did it? Why not some other god? If creation is all the evidence you have for the existence of a god, then why not Allah, or Zeus, or Brahma?

Our own logic and all science that is testable shows us that nothing comes from nowhere

But, according to your theology, your god created everything out of nothing. And, if your arguing by cause and effect, what caused god? And Aristotle's 'first cause' argument doesn't necessarily work in this case, because the first cause doesn't have to be any kind of deity.

 

[BIG D]

I still don't know if WWII was the greatest of all. You would have to show evidence of that being true.

And just the fact that war and the like have continued does not suggest that the world has not gotten better. If that is your sole argument, then it lacks horribly. As I've explained, and as has not been addressed, we have seen a massive amount of charity work. We see nations trying to help those stuck in warfare and the like.

More so, how does this show that Jesus didn't help? Jesus never claimed that he was going to end all warfare and the like. He didn't even state he was going to make the world a better place. So I think the entire point of the thread to be based on a very sandy foundation.

60 million dead, WHOLE cities WIPED out, millions homeless...we can say for sure, that before WWII, whole cities could not be wiped out as they were in WWII because they didn't have 4 engine bombers in 2000 bc!!!!WWII wasn't the greatest destruction/killing of all???you've got to be kidding...Europeans and Asian cities WIPED out!!WHOLE CITIES!!HIROSHIMA, NAGASAKI???ok, so you agree we still have at least the SAME amount[[but we know that is wrong because of WWII]] of murder/war/killing as we did before and after christ??so he just changed the little things like less hunger???..I still see a lot of that...less murder??..no...more charity??..more homes for the homeless??...what about the tsunamis and earthquakes that destroy more homes???