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Jesus insisted that he had lived in heaven before being born as a human

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
An interesting detail that I want to share about what you said there.

"Bnei Adam" is not the expression here:

Dan. 7:13 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed.

That passage was not written in Hebrew, but in Aramaic. The expression is: בַר אֱנָש ( _bar enash). Adam's name is not related to Jesus' origin.
Normally, all humans are Adam's descendants, and to say "human" is used the Hebrew expression "son/daughters of Adam". But Jesus was not a descendant of Adam in the normal sense and the expression used in Aramaic confirm it. It may be not a casualty that Daniel wrote some parts of his book in a different language (Daniel 2:4b -7:28 ).

The earliest "anash" comes from the daughters of adam.

Gen 6:4​
הנפלים היו בארץ בימים ההם וגם אחרי־כן אשר יבאו בני האלהים אל־בנות האדם וילדו להם המה הגברים אשר מעולם אנשי השם׃​
There were Nefilim in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men of old, men of renown.​
 

Eli G

Well-Known Member
The ancient languages Hebrew and Aramaic are related, but they are two different languages.

The word ʼenóhsch exists in Hebrew and means "man", but when the phrase "son of man" is used in Hebrew ben Adam is usually used like it appears 93 times in the book of Ezekiel to refer to Jehovah's prophet

... although a different phrase similar to the Aramaic is used in Ps. 144:3, ben ʼenóhsch which is applied to Jesus in Heb. 2:6. Ps. 8:4 (which is an almost identical text to Ps. 144:3) uses ben Adam instead of ben ʼenóhsch.

I
n Aramaic "son of man" is bar ʼenásch as used in Dan. 7:13. Note that the word "son" is different in both languages and the word "man" is not exactly the same.

Although phrases and words in Aramaic are found throughout the Hebrew Scriptures due to the relationship between the two languages and the communication between ancient Semitic peoples, throughout the Bible there are very few portions written only in Aramaic (not Hebrew), such as Ezra 4: 8 to 6:18 and 7:12-26; Jeremiah 10:11 and Daniel 2:4b to 7:28.
 

Eli G

Well-Known Member
... Adam was created from the soil, but Jesus "emptied himself" and he was born by birth from within the womb of a woman. So, although they were both perfect humans, they are different.

Jesus came from heaven;

Surely now you understand why Paul wrote this out of inspiration:

1 Cor. 15:47 The first man is from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven.

from heaven __ ἐξ οὐρανοῦ

... his Father sent him to come INTO THIS WORLD ...

Here you have where the Scripture says that Jesus came into the word sent by God:

Juan 1:9 Ἦν τὸ φῶς τὸ ἀληθινόν, ὃ φωτίζει πάντα ἄνθρωπον, ἐρχόμενον εἰς τὸν κόσμον.
9 The true light that gives light to every sort of man was about to come into the world.

Juan 3:17 οὐ γὰρ ἀπέστειλεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν υἱὸν εἰς τὸν κόσμον ἵνα κρίνῃ τὸν κόσμον, ἀλλʼ ἵνα σωθῇ ὁ κόσμος διʼ αὐτοῦ.
17 For God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.

Juan 3:19 αὕτη δέ ἐστιν ἡ κρίσις ὅτι τὸ φῶς ἐλήλυθεν εἰς τὸν κόσμον καὶ ἠγάπησαν οἱ ἄνθρωποι μᾶλλον τὸ σκότος ἢ τὸ φῶς· ἦν γὰρ αὐτῶν πονηρὰ τὰ ἔργα.
19 Now this is the basis for judgment: that the light has come into the world, but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked.

Juan 6:14 Οἱ οὖν ἄνθρωποι ἰδόντες ὃ ἐποίησεν σημεῖον ἔλεγον ὅτι οὗτός ἐστιν ἀληθῶς ὁ προφήτης ὁ ἐρχόμενος εἰς τὸν κόσμον.
14 When the people saw the sign he performed, they began to say: “This really is the Prophet who was to come into the world.”

Juan 8:26 πολλὰ ἔχω περὶ ὑμῶν λαλεῖν καὶ κρίνειν, ἀλλʼ ὁ πέμψας με ἀληθής ἐστιν, κἀγὼ ἃ ἤκουσα παρʼ αὐτοῦ ταῦτα λαλῶ εἰς τὸν κόσμον.
26 I have many things to speak concerning you and to pass judgment on. As a matter of fact, the One who sent me is true, and the very things I heard from him I am speaking in the world.

Juan 9:39 Καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς· εἰς κρίμα ἐγὼ εἰς τὸν κόσμον τοῦτον ἦλθον, ἵνα οἱ μὴ βλέποντες βλέπωσιν καὶ οἱ βλέποντες τυφλοὶ γένωνται.
39 Jesus then said: “For this judgment I came into this world, that those not seeing might see and those seeing might become blind.”

Juan 10:36 ὃν ὁ πατὴρ ἡγίασεν καὶ ἀπέστειλεν εἰς τὸν κόσμον ὑμεῖς λέγετε ὅτι βλασφημεῖς, ὅτι εἶπον· υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ εἰμι;
36 do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

Juan 11:27 λέγει αὐτῷ· ναὶ κύριε , ἐγὼ πεπίστευκα ὅτι σὺ εἶ ὁ χριστὸς ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ εἰς τὸν κόσμον ἐρχόμενος.
27 She said to him: “Yes, Lord, I have believed that you are the Christ, the Son of God, the one coming into the world.”

Juan 12:46 ἐγὼ φῶς εἰς τὸν κόσμον ἐλήλυθα, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ μὴ μείνῃ.
46 I have come as a light into the world, so that everyone putting faith in me may not remain in the darkness.

Juan 16:28 ἐξῆλθον παρὰ τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ ἐλήλυθα εἰς τὸν κόσμον· πάλιν ἀφίημι τὸν κόσμον καὶ πορεύομαι πρὸς τὸν πατέρα.
28 I came as the Father’s representative and have come into the world. Now I am leaving the world and am going to the Father.”

Juan 18:37 εἶπεν οὖν αὐτῷ ὁ Πιλᾶτος· οὐκοῦν βασιλεὺς εἶ σύ; ἀπεκρίθη ὁ Ἰησοῦς· σὺ λέγεις ὅτι βασιλεύς εἰμι . ἐγὼ εἰς τοῦτο γεγέννημαι καὶ εἰς τοῦτο ἐλήλυθα εἰς τὸν κόσμον, ἵνα μαρτυρήσω τῇ ἀληθείᾳ· πᾶς ὁ ὢν ἐκ τῆς ἀληθείας ἀκούει μου τῆς φωνῆς.
37 So Pilate said to him: “Well, then, are you a king?” Jesus answered: “You yourself are saying that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is on the side of the truth listens to my voice.”

1 Tim 1:15 πιστὸς ὁ λόγος καὶ πάσης ἀποδοχῆς ἄξιος, ὅτι Χριστὸς Ἰησοῦς ἦλθεν εἰς τὸν κόσμον ἁμαρτωλοὺς σῶσαι, ὧν πρῶτός εἰμι ἐγώ.
15 This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these, I am foremost.

Heb 10:5 Διὸ εἰσερχόμενος εἰς τὸν κόσμον λέγει· θυσίαν καὶ προσφορὰν οὐκ ἠθέλησας, σῶμα δὲ κατηρτίσω μοι·
5 So when he comes into the world, he says: “‘Sacrifice and offering you did not want, but you prepared a body for me."

1 Jn 4:9 ἐν τούτῳ ἐφανερώθη ἡ ἀγάπη τοῦ θεοῦ ἐν ἡμῖν, ὅτι τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἀπέσταλκεν ὁ θεὸς εἰς τὸν κόσμον, ἵνα ζήσωμεν διʼ αὐτοῦ.
9 By this the love of God was revealed in our case, that God sent his only-begotten Son into the world so that we might gain life through him.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
In the following dialogue with the Jews, Jesus Christ made it implicit that he had seen Abraham personally.

John 8:56
"Abraham YOUR father rejoiced greatly in the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced.”
57 Therefore the Jews said to him:
“You are not yet fifty years old, and still you have seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them:
“Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”

If Jesus' words are considered true, then we should accept that he taught about his pre-existence before he was born as a human being.
I believe that does not mean a pre-existent human body.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I found this passage to be supportive of my belief that the spiritual essence that was in the vessel of "Jesus" was once in the vessel of "Melchizedek," King and High Priest of Salem in Abraham's times.
I believe there is no evidence to support that.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
@Spice I posted this thread in Biblical Debates for a reason. I am talking about what the Bible says.
The Bible says nothing about "spiritual essence" or "vessels" so I guess you are in the wrong subform.
How about this one:
(1Cor 15:45 [ESV2011])
Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
 
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