Jesus is a Fictional Character

[rational experiences]

Mass by substance gas.
Mass by substance water.

Presence heavens mass. The body.

First not own by human science a defined body type.

A man human is by name only ever in science a human type a man human.

No names was once a real scientific teaching to theists. Stating why chosen human science practice was falsified information.

Why any type of nature is sacrificed within heavens daily.

As it is not named first.

If men write a story the story is always about what happened in the past.

Where you live saved surviving was never honoured by self destructive theist scientists. Who theory the intention of recausing the same type attack.

If you said Jesus saved you it's because Jesus never saved you. As it ended.

If you say mass saved me as mass unnamed was first you would be correct.

It ended was the teaching.

The teaching said it then returned by itself 1000 years later as science never owned mass itself. The teaching don't ever change anything.

Proof creation created destroys life itself first naturally was sciences known law.

O earth can at anytime destroy us all first.
Heavens also.
Cosmic also....first.

 

[lukethethird]

You were talking like you knew about spiritual things but apparently not, so how can you speak of things like faith, doesn’t seem like you know what it is or how faith comes to a person.

It's our own choice how we choose to formulate our own beliefs. A faith based belief differs from a belief that is formulated by drawing from conclusions that are grounded in evidence, and it also differs from a suspended belief, as in not formulating a belief at all until we can know, or perhaps we may never know. Whatever the case, it's up to the individual to choose faith or not.

 

[ElishaElijah]

It's our own choice how we choose to formulate our own beliefs. A faith based belief differs from a belief that is formulated by drawing from conclusions that are grounded in evidence, and it also differs from a suspended belief, as in not formulating a belief at all until we can know, or perhaps we may never know. Whatever the case, it's up to the individual to choose faith or not.

My faith is grounded in evidence, it came by hearing God and when I asked Him for help He did help me and that was the beginning. Much more happened since then. I didn’t learn that from the Bible because I didn’t know the Bible or Gods Word. The Bible came alive to me afterwards and God opened my understanding and I see now where before I didn’t.

 

[lukethethird]

My faith is grounded in evidence, it came by hearing God and when I asked Him for help He did help me and that was the beginning. Much more happened since then. I didn’t learn that from the Bible because I didn’t know the Bible or Gods Word. The Bible came alive to me afterwards and God opened my understanding and I see now where before I didn’t.

So you claim, I'm not abliged to believe you.

 

[ElishaElijah]

So you claim, I'm not abliged to believe you.

No you’re not obliged to believe me, everyone has that freedom in life. Goes both ways

 

[Flagran]

I think regardless of whether there existed a Jew/Rabbi at the source of the Biblical account. Jesus did not write anything. Can't even be sure, if he existed, what he looked like.

What we have is a fictional character, not a real character. There is simply not enough information about Jesus for Jesus to be real character. Even the name Jesus is a fictional creation.

Are you ok with Jesus as fictional or do you feel a need to insist that Jesus existed as a real person?

What is Jesus suppose to write??? He taught complex subjects in parables and as a child He was raised in the study of the Torah and interpreted it verbally at those present amazement as to His knowledge and understanding!!! Obviously if you can read you can write, He chose not to write... anyway, to write another book as accompaniment to 'The Torah' would not be such a good idea during those times. Well. if you don't believe in Jesus, then there is no point to your existence?!?! You born you live you die...That's it!!! no meaning to life. I totally agree with you about what Jesus supposedly looked like...You only have to google/image search 'Jesus' and you will see all the 'Graven Images' I personally don't subscribe to that...I cringe when I see it on other christian media. But hey, don't lump all of us together... there are those who like me that prefer His face to be replaced with more of an aura of light omitting His facial features. Study the Bible on your own and interpret yourself what makes sense... don't let others tell you what they think...God JHVH has given you the faculties to think and see and read and hear and understand. Best of luck!!!

 

[Nakosis]

What is Jesus suppose to write??? He taught complex subjects in parables and as a child He was raised in the study of the Torah and interpreted it verbally at those present amazement as to His knowledge and understanding!!! Obviously if you can read you can write, He chose not to write... anyway, to write another book as accompaniment to 'The Torah' would not be such a good idea during those times. Well. if you don't believe in Jesus, then there is no point to your existence?!?! You born you live you die...That's it!!! no meaning to life. I totally agree with you about what Jesus supposedly looked like...You only have to google/image search 'Jesus' and you will see all the 'Graven Images' I personally don't subscribe to that...I cringe when I see it on other christian media. But hey, don't lump all of us together... there are those who like me that prefer His face to be replaced with more of an aura of light omitting His facial features. Study the Bible on your own and interpret yourself what makes sense... don't let others tell you what they think...God JHVH has given you the faculties to think and see and read and hear and understand. Best of luck!!!

The point is that he didn't so we are left to fill in the gaps. The less evidence of a historical person the more these gaps are based on fiction.

 

[lukethethird]

No you’re not obliged to believe me, everyone has that freedom in life. Goes both ways

Only because I'm not obliged to accept unevidenced claims.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Only because I'm not obliged to accept unevidenced claims.

I wouldn’t either if I was you, that’s blind faith.

 

[lukethethird]

I wouldn’t either if I was you, that’s blind faith.

Youir claims are unevidenced, claiming that they are evidenced does not make it so.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The less evidence of a historical person the more these gaps are based on fiction.

You keep talking about fiction, as if a story that is wriitten by an author who we all know made it up, is somehow equivalent to a possible false-witness.

I don't think that a court of law would see it that way, and neither do I.

 

[Nakosis]

You keep talking about fiction, as if a story that is wriitten by an author who we all know made it up, is somehow equivalent to a possible false-witness.

I don't think that a court of law would see it that way, and neither do I.

Eyewitness testimony is very unreliable. Sometimes that is all the legal systems has. the result being many innocent folks go to jail.
The prosecutor creates a narrative that may seem to make sense but is not based on factual evidence.

So it comes down more to how convincing the fictional narrative created by the prosecutor is than historical fact.

 

[lukethethird]

You keep talking about fiction, as if a story that is wriitten by an author who we all know made it up, is somehow equivalent to a possible false-witness.

I don't think that a court of law would see it that way, and neither do I.

People that write fiction are not false witnesses to anything.

 

[Flagran]

The point is that he didn't so we are left to fill in the gaps. The less evidence of a historical person the more these gaps are based on fiction.

Yes that's what the apostles are there for as witnesses. So would it be easy for you if Jesus wrote his own autobiography???BTW what don't you know about Jesus???...just curious

 

[lukethethird]

Yes that's what the apostles are there for as witnesses. So would it be easy for you if Jesus wrote his own autobiography???BTW what don't you know about Jesus???...just curious

The gospels read like fiction.

 

[Augustus]

They, like the gnostics, taught / wrote that Jesus pre-existed in heaven with God, his creator; that (because God was pure and remote spirit and would never sully [him]self with anything material) it fell to Jesus (in the role of the gnostic demiurge meaning 'craftsman') to create the material universe, and to act as mediator between the material universe and God; and more, but that's enough to identify the source of Paul's and John's teachings on these topics.

Why do you believe that Gnosticism influenced Paul, rather than Christians (such as Paul), Gnostics and Hellenistic Jews (such as Philo) were all influenced by Platonism?

 

[blü 2]

Why do you believe that Gnosticism influenced Paul, rather than Christians (such as Paul), Gnostics and Hellenistic Jews (such as Philo) were all influenced by Platonism?

Because as far as I'm aware nothing in Judaism and only Gnosticism among the Greeks held the view that (a) God was immensely remote, absolutely pure, absolutely immaterial (b) so it fell to one of the senior beings (the 'demiurge' meaning 'craftsman') God had made, to create the material world (a task God would never sully [him]self by even considering (c) and then it fell to the demiurge to be the necessary mediator between material humans and immensely remote and pure God.

Both the Jesus of Paul and the Jesus of John are put in this demiurge role.

By contrast, the Jesuses of Mark, Matthew and Luke didn't pre-exist in heaven, didn't make the material world, and were God's envoy only.

Just how much Platonism is present in any of the models of Jesus, isn't a question I've looked into.

 

[Augustus]

Because as far as I'm aware nothing in Judaism and only Gnosticism among the Greeks held the view that (a) God was immensely remote, absolutely pure, absolutely immaterial (b) so it fell to one of the senior beings (the 'demiurge' meaning 'craftsman') God had made, to create the material world (a task God would never sully [him]self by even considering (c) and then it fell to the demiurge to be the necessary mediator between material humans and immensely remote and pure God.

Both the Jesus of Paul and the Jesus of John are put in this demiurge role.

By contrast, the Jesuses of Mark, Matthew and Luke didn't pre-exist in heaven, didn't make the material world, and were God's envoy only.

Just how much Platonism is present in any of the models of Jesus, isn't a question I've looked into.

The demiurge is a Platonic concept and was present in the middle Platonism of the time.

A "Logos" as Divine Mediator between the perfect form "God" and the imperfect material world was an idea found in Judaism (for example Philo of Alexandria)

These are trends that started in Judaism, and, to me at least, it seems more plausible that these are the roots of Paul, and that Gnosticism developed out of the same roots (and was perhaps a development partly based on Paul, rather than an influence).

Neoplatonism was certainly an influence on the Church fathers later on. Stoicism also likely had an influence (for example on the idea of a divine Logos underpinning the world)

 

[Sand Dancer]

Yeah, that Jesus is cool, it's that other one that's getting tired, the historical Jesus from Nazareth.

Poor historical Jesus doesn't get any respect. It's these stories that got made about him that seem to get the attention.

 

[Nakosis]

Yes that's what the apostles are there for as witnesses. So would it be easy for you if Jesus wrote his own autobiography???BTW what don't you know about Jesus???...just curious

What he looked like. Did he really believe his father was really God.