Jesus is all that really matters

[sojourner]

It will do. It's called the Third Temple and it's going to be built a l'avenir

So, right now, it’s something other than what it is...

Then you don't believe in the prophets

I don’t believe the prophets are future predictors. I believe the prophets speak God’s truth. And that truth isn’t always on the literal level — which is where you’re arguing.

 

[sojourner]

It self-evidently hasn't happened according to the prophecies about the messiah.

Perhaps not on a literal level. There are other levels.

 

[sojourner]

Of course, yet there are many "churches" that is "assemblies". Like in the book of Revelation there is prophecy to the 7 churches of Asia Minor.

So although there is definitely only one church/temple of God. Also known as the body of Christ. Yet, there are many local churches/assemblies.

I would posit that “Churches” plural is an illusion we have fostered and continue to propagate.

 

[Rival]

Perhaps not on a literal level. There are other levels.

Whatever you need to prove your false messiah.

 

[sojourner]

I might not have, but the Scriptures have. And the Scriptures say the messiah will reunite the ten tribes, bring offers to the Temple, and bring peace to the Jews.

Literally none of this has happened.

Literally. What about mythically? Symbolically? Energetically?

 

[sojourner]

Whatever you need to prove your false messiah.

Pffft.

 

[Rival]

Pffft.

Indeed. it must be annoying that literally nothing has changed as a result of him. No peace, no nothing.

 

[Rival]

Literally. What about mythically? Symbolically? Energetically?

There are symbolic readings where symbolism is evident. There are literal readings where literalism is evident. But turning everything into symbolism means that anything can be interpreted any way a person likes. If a literal reading can be read, use that first.

 

[sojourner]

So, you say, words don't have meaning, they really mean whatever the reader / hearer wants?

Wow, if that's right, using a timetable must be a joy to you, all those buses and trains and planes always leaving exactly when you want!

Sure, unless the reader knows how to interpret all the special symbols. But unless he does, the interpretation will be meaningless.

 

[sojourner]

Indeed. it must be annoying that literally nothing has changed as a result of him. No peace, no nothing.

Shifts have happened. You’re not looking.

 

[sojourner]

There are symbolic readings where symbolism is evident. There are literal readings where literalism is evident. But turning everything into symbolism means that anything can be interpreted any way a person likes. If a literal reading can be read, use that first.

I’m not talking about the exegetical process.

 

[QuestioningMind]

It’s not about evidence.

For you it obviously isn't.

 

[sojourner]

For you it obviously isn't.

It isn’t for anyone, which is why you’re not getting it.

 

[Mindmaster]

Reactionism is no substitute for enlightenment.

Enlightenment is no substitute for having to make sense, or be forthright with your intentions.

 

[QuestioningMind]

It isn’t for anyone, which is why you’re not getting it.

Speak for yourself. For me, belief requires verifiable evidence. Rather childish of you to suggest that you know better than I do what I require in order to believe something.

 

[blü 2]

And how do you determine what the text says?

In the usual way: when, where, who, what, why.

Well, first off, theology isn’t about objective tests. Second, theology is about propositions, not certainties. Theology isn’t science. And it can’t be twisted to conform to the parameters of the scientific method.

It can be criticized: by pointing out statements that have no real or substantial meaning; by cross-examination as to its claims and their implications, intended and unintended; by pointing out self-contradictions; by reductio ad absurdum; and so on.

Sure, unless the reader knows how to interpret all the special symbols. But unless he does, the interpretation will be meaningless.

You see? Documents are intelligible after all!

 

[sojourner]

Enlightenment is no substitute for having to make sense, or be forthright with your intentions.

If it’s not sensible or forthright, it’s not enlightenment.

 

[sojourner]

Speak for yourself. For me, belief requires verifiable evidence. Rather childish of you to suggest that you know better than I do what I require in order to believe something.

Then it’s not belief, it’s knowledge.

 

[sojourner]

In the usual way: when, where, who, what, why

That’s a little thin for exegeting these kinds of texts, but it’s a start. There is also the dealing with one’s biases, filters and expectations and getting them out of the way. Among some other things.

It can be criticized: by pointing out statements that have no real or substantial meaning; by cross-examination as to its claims and their implications, intended and unintended; by pointing out self-contradictions; by reductio ad absurdum; and so on.

None of those specifically addresses the problem of imposing certainties and the scientific method.

You see? Documents are intelligible after all!

If you know how to exegete them properly.

 

[blü 2]

If you know how to exegete them properly.

Voilà!

 

[74x12]

If you guys ever want to know why your rhetoric doesn't reach some people, let me show you something.



"...Excuse me, I'm very euphoric because the invisible imaginary sky man loves me. If anyone finds it hard to talk to themselves, then it may be a magic mind monster putting a trap around your thoughts to keep you from imbuing that day with mind power. Rebuke it in the name of the son of the invisible imaginary sky man (who is actually also the invisible imaginary sky man) and ask him to fill you with his love for others. Magic mind monsters may also try to make difficult rules to follow when you talk to yourself ; to discourage you. In that case, just talk to yourself some more... No discouragement. No feelings of inadequacy. Because the son of the invisible imaginary sky man (who is actually also the invisible imaginary sky man) is all our sufficiency."

I understand that it all seems normal to you because you've accepted it and were probably raised in it. But from the outside, it's crazy.

So you assume this thread was made for atheists such as yourself? I believe what you're doing here is actually the real rhetoric.