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Jesus is God?

Muffled

Jesus in me
Are Jesus followers God?_____ At prayer [John 17:11,21-23] Jesus asks God that his followers be 'one' just as they are one. Jesus was not praying they all be God but be one in purpose, goal, unity, belief, etc.

John 14:28 Jesus already taught that his Father is greater than I [Jesus].

Decades after Jesus was resurrected by God to heaven at Revelation 2:18 Jesus still refers to himself, not as God, but as the Son of God.
At Revelation 3:12 Doesn't Jesus still believes he still has a God over him, and Jesus refers to himself at Rev 3:14 B as the beginning of the creation by God.

Colossians 1:15 says Jesus is 'firstborn' in the heavens.
God had no beginning or birth, but is from everlasting.
God was before the beginning. Jesus was not before the beginning.

Paul also mentions the glorified heavenly Jesus, at 1st Corinthians 11:3 B, as the head of Christ being God.

Precisely! The only question is how many and for how long. I know I certainly am most of the time these days but it was not always so.

John 17:11 ¶ And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are. 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us: that the world may believe that thou didst send me. 22 And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we are one; 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that thou didst send me, and lovedst them, even as thou lovedst me

Here are the verses. Please underline or highlight in a color the word "Purpose." (or goal or belief)


 

Muffled

Jesus in me
  1. Jesus said, "I and my Father are one' but the Jews misunderstood him, thinking he was claiming to be equal with God. (vs. 33). Trinitarians make the same mistake. The oneness referred to, is not a declaration by Christ that he is "Very God", but rather unity of purpose. Consider the evidence:
    1. Jesus subsequently prayed for his disciples, "that they may be one, as we are." (John 17:11, 21). These words require that the unity referred to, be also extended to the disciples. Obviously the unity is not that of the powers of the Godhead but unity resulting from sanctification through the word of God. (John 17:14, 17, 18).
    2. See also John 17:22, 23: ". . . that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one . . ." Likewise, these words require a relationship between the disciples and Christ which exists between the Son and his Father - a unity, or perfection with the divine purpose.
  2. Elsewhere in John's gospel, Jesus clearly affirms that he is not co-equal with the Father: "The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do." (John 5:19); "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." (John 5:30); "My Father is greater than I." (John 14:28). (Source: John 10:30, wrestedscriptures.com)

They heard the words and believed them. How is it that you don't understand those same words?

However that does not change the identity. He is still God although not co-equal. I have never contenede that the human body was God only the spirit within is identified as God. However most people tend to view spirit and body as one person. So my idea is that if walks like God and talks like God He must be God.
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
They heard the words and believed them. How is it that you don't understand those same words?

Because he actually clarifies it a little later in the exact same book.


John 10:27-30
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica] [/FONT]And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.

Now here's the clarification......

John 17:3
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica] [/FONT]And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true god, and Yeshua the Messiah, whom thou hast sent.

John 17:6
I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

John 17:9
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

John 17:11
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name which thou gavest me, and I have kept them, and not one of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.


John 17:21-22
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.


Each of these is highlighted with a corresponding color to show how they relate. All the biblical Yeshua was talking about one in purpose.......
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Precisely! The only question is how many and for how long. I know I certainly am most of the time these days but it was not always so.
John 17:11 ¶ And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are. 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us: that the world may believe that thou didst send me. 22 And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we are one; 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that thou didst send me, and lovedst them, even as thou lovedst me
Here are the verses. Please underline or highlight in a color the word "Purpose." (or goal or belief)

Wouldn't you agree that Jesus and his Father were: one in purpose, goal, unity, belief, agreement, objective, etc.? So in that same way his followers could be one just as Jesus and his Father are one.
Jesus was not praying they all become God.
1st John 1:3; 1st Cor 1:9,10 also connects the word 'fellowship' or having a sharing with them, but not literally being them.

Those of Matthew 25:32,37 could remain in that 'oneness' forever.
Those alive, at the time of Matt 25:31; 16:27, counted as righteous by Jesus placing them at his right hand of favor, so to speak, do not die. They remain alive on earth and keep right on living on earth right into the start of Jesus millennial reign over earth.
- Proverbs 2:21,22; 10:30; Psalm 92:7; 37:11,29,38
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
However that does not change the identity. He is still God although not co-equal. I have never contenede that the human body was God only the spirit within is identified as God. However most people tend to view spirit and body as one person. So my idea is that if walks like God and talks like God He must be God.

Who did Jesus say he was at John 10:36?________________
Jesus and God are both from the spirit realm.
Spirit creation was created first, then the physical world.
God sent his spirit Son to the physical world.
Not in a materialized human body like the fallen angels of Noah's day.
[Gen 6:2,4; Jude 6], but to be born as a perfect human of mind and body just as Adam was originally created. That is why Jesus having human perfection could be a ransom for us.

Jesus, according to Col. 1:15,16 was 'firstborn' in the heavens or spirit realm.
God is from everlasting [Psalm 90:2] so God was not born or begotten.
Whereas, Jesus said he was the beginning of the creation by God at Revelation 3:14 b. Only God was before the beginning. Jesus was not before the beginning as God was. The resurrected heavenly Jesus still calls himself the Son of God at Rev 2:18, and the heavenly Jesus still believes he has a God over him at Rev. 3:12.
 

Agnostic75

Well-Known Member
joeboonda said:
There are 27 prophecies in the Old Testament concerning the events of the crucifixion alone. If you are at all interested, I could list some with the verses, let me know.

Please list one prophecy of your choice.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
I know that there are a good many christians out their who believe that those who follow the jewish religion need to be saved because they do not worship Jesus. So, quick question:

Jesus is God(YHWH). It seems to me that we are worshipping the same deity. Am I correct? Why or why not?

Moses asked God for his name in order that he might be able to tell the Israelites in Egypt, who had sent him. And God said; Exodus 3: 14; "I Am Who I Am." You must tell them: 'The one who is called "I AM" has sent me to you.' Tell the Israelites that I, the Lord, the God of their ancestors, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, have sent you to them.

Acts 3: 13; "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of your ancestors, has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.

Deuteronomy 18: 18; The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, says to Moses; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command. He will speak in my name etc.

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, Just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "Blessed is he, who comes in the name of the Lord." Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had prophesied that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.

Act 17: 31; For he (The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a man he has chosen. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that man from death.

quote=Khale; Jesus is God(YHWH). It seems to me that we are worshipping the same deity. Am I correct? Why or why not?

Jesus is not the God of our ancestors, he is not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as is proved conclusively by the Holy Scriptures.
 
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S-word

Well-Known Member
Precisely! The only question is how many and for how long. I know I certainly am most of the time these days but it was not always so.

John 17:11 ¶ And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are. 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us: that the world may believe that thou didst send me. 22 And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we are one; 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that thou didst send me, and lovedst them, even as thou lovedst me

Here are the verses. Please underline or highlight in a color the word "Purpose." (or goal or belief)



Moses asked God for his name in order that he might be able to tell the Israelites in Egypt, who had sent him. And God said; Exodus 3: 14; "I Am Who I Am." You must tell them: 'The one who is called "I AM" has sent me to you.' Tell the Israelites that I, the Lord, the God of their ancestors, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, have sent you to them.

Acts 3: 13; "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of your ancestors, has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.

Deuteronomy 18: 18; The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, says to Moses; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command. He will speak in my name etc.

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, Just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "Blessed is he, who comes in the name of the Lord." Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had prophesied that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.

Act 17: 31; For he (The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a man he has chosen. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that man from death.

John 14: 24; "He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word that you hear are not mine but the Fathers that sent me."

I hear the words that you are reciting from John 17: 11; but they are not the words of Jesus, but the words of our Father, "Who I Am," who is our God and saviour see 1st Timothy 1: 1; and he is the Son of Man, the anointed one, who when he was about to come into the world, said to his God, "Sacrifices and offerings thou didst not ask for, but a body you have prepared for me. That body was the man Jesus upon whom the spirit of our Lord and saviour descended in the form of a dove.
 

pinkpanther123

New Member
Jesus is God but He is God in the flesh. There are three basic truths that all individuals need to investigate. The first truth is that every person is absolutely dependent upon God who has an ultimate claim on their lives as their holy creator. He has authority over creation, we owe our existence to Him, and we were created to worship and serve Him. (Genesis 1:1, Acts 17:25, Matthew 4:10) Yet, every person has rebelled against God and His authority. This rebellion is called sin and its consequences are physical and spiritual death. The second truth: Mans sin separates him from God and therefore he needs to be reconciled to Him. Nothing we do can bring us into God’s favor. (Romans 3:20) All people have sinned by falling short of God’s standard. (Romans 3:23) However, God sent his only Son to eliminate that barrier between God and man. Jesus is God the Son who was made man to save sinners according to His heavenly Fathers eternal purpose. Therefore the third truth is: Jesus Christ, the only God-Man, has provided the only way for sinful man to be reconciled to the Creator God. One must realize that the only way to worship God is through His Son Jesus Christ as stated in God’s word the Bible. John 1:14 says “The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.” Colossians 1:19-20, “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.” My suggestion is that anyone who is struggling with how to worship God and His Son Jesus Christ would find it helpful to read the first chapter of the Gospel of John.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
Jesus is God but He is God in the flesh.


Jesus is a man who became a God and not a god who became a man,

No man has ascended to the ends of heaven except, except who? Except he who came down, even the Son of Man who is in heaven. Who was that one exception of all mankind to have ascended to the ends of this cycle of universal activity?

Enoch, whose faith saved him from dying, who, at the age of 365 (The sacrificial Lamb of God is to be 365 days or one year old) was taken to heaven where he was translated from human form into angelic form when he was anointed by the sweet smelling ointment of God which shone with the brilliance of the Sun, and the Greek word “Christ” means “The anointed,” plus, it was Enoch, who witnessed the heavens roll up and burn, and fall as massive columns of fire into the Great Abyss, or Black Hole, which was the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven and the end of all things.

Also the story that reveals all, tells us that the old Adamite body of mankind, in which the ancestral spirit was Adam, the godhead and compilation of all the pre-human animal spirits that were gathered in the evolution of man, was submerged in the Baptismal waters of the earth, from which arose the new body of Enoch, who is the human ancestral Father spirit in Noah and all his descendants. So, according to the story: The post-flood body of mankind, is the body in which the spirit of Enoch ascends to the end of time where, as is the case with every spirit/mind that develops within a human body, the greater spirit that developed within the greater body of man, was born into the invisible spiritual realm that co-exists within this visible three dimensional world, with the death of the body in which he developed.

In his ascent to the ends of this cycle of universal activity, Enoch saw, the one who He was to be chosen By the Lord of Spirits to be his heir and successor. From the Book of “Enoch the Prophet.” Chapter 39: verses 6, up to and including verse 8; “And in that place mine eyes saw the Elect One of righteousness and of faith, and I saw his dwelling place beneath the wings of the Lord of Spirits. And Righteousness shall prevail in his days, and the righteous and elect shall be without number before Him forever and ever. And all the righteous and elect before Him shall be strong as fiery lights. And their mouth shall be full of blessing, and their lips shall extol the name of the Lord of Spirits, and righteousness before Him shall never fail. There I wished to dwell, and my spirit longed for that dwelling place; and there henceforth hath been my portion. For so hath it been established concerning me before the Lord of Spirits.” Do you have any understanding of what has been said here?

After Enoch had been escorted to the ends of this cycle of universal activity, and had recorded all that he had seen in his 366 books, God gave him thirty days in which to return to earth and reveal his writings to his children. From the book of “The Secrets of Enoch.” After telling the two escorting angels to return Enoch to earth for thirty days, an ancient angel colder than ice was called forward to touch Enoch, and ‘The Most High’ said to him, “Enoch, If thy face were not frozen here, no man on earth would be able to behold thee.”

After revealing all that he had seen to his children, which is contained in too many chapters to bother about here, in chapter 50, Enoch says to his children; “I have put every man’s work in writing and none born on earth can remain hidden nor his works remain concealed. I see all things. Now therefore, my children, in patience and meekness spend the number of your days that you may inherit endless life, etc. In chapter 50: 2; Enoch says this to his pre-flood children, “You see how I wrote all the works of everyman, before his creation etc.” Now you may understand How Paul, the disciples and the prophets, were chosen to be among the elect and fiery ones, before they were born.

Instructing his children to reveal his handwriting to others, he says to them; “My children, behold, the day of my term and the time has approached. For the angels who shall go with me are standing before me and urge me to my departure from you; they are standing here on earth awaiting what has been told them. For tomorrow I shall go up on to heaven, to the uppermost Jerusalem to my eternal inheritance etc. CONTINUED:
 
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S-word

Well-Known Member
CONTINUED from post #570.

The sacrificial lamb of God, “The Pascal Lamb” was to be a one year old, or 365 day old lamb, and the Lamb of God is Christ and the word “Christ,” means “Anointed”.
The only exception of all mankind to have ascended to the ends of time and to have witnessed the heavens roll up as a scroll, wherein the universal elements became so excited they burnt up and fell as massive columns of fire beyond all measure in height and depth into the Great Abyss, or Black hole, which is according to the escorting angel, The prison of all the stars and the host of heaven, was Enoch, who, at the age of 365 was carried to heaven, where, as it is written he was stripped of his mortal garments and anointed with the sweet smelling ointment of God, which shone with the brilliance of the sun, and behold, he was as one of the glorious ones, where, clothed and girded in fire, he was chosen to serve God before the body of Adam (Mankind) into all eternity.

Genesis 5: 24; and Hebrew 11: 5, reveal that Enoch had never experienced death, when the old indwelling ancestral spirit of Adam was rejected and his pre-flood body (Of Mankind) was submerged in the baptismal waters of the world, the new post-flood body of Noah, his wife, their three sons and their wives in who the new indwelling ancestral Father spirit was Enoch, as all 8 souls were descendant of Enoch’s six sons, Methusulah, Rigam, Riman, Urchan, Cherminion and Giadad.

Enoch the indwelling spirit in the post-flood body of mankind cannot die, as he himself reveals in the Book of Enoch the Prophet 37: 4; “Til the present day such wisdom has never been given by the Lord of Spirits as I have received according to my insight, according to the good pleasure of the Lord of Spirits by whom the lot of eternal life has been given to me,” which is verified in Genesis 5: 24; and Hebrew 11:5.

It is He, to whom all the information and experiences taken in through his human body of mankind, is gathered as he evolves in his ascent to the ends of this cycle of universal activity, and it he, “The anointed one,” “The Christ,” The spiritual compilation of the all the cells within the body of post-flood mankind, to whom all the sins committed by the sinful body in which he develops are ascribed.

Hebrew 10: 5; And it was He, the only exception of all mankind to have ascended to the ends of the heavens, the Son of man, who, when he was about to come into the world, said to God; “You do not want sacrifices and offerings but a body you have prepared for me.” And that body was the man Jesus, who, as he rose from the baptismal waters, was filled with the spirit of Enoch our Lord and saviour who descended upon him in the form of a dove.

You may have evolved from some organic molecule which once floated around in the primeval soup, but you are not that organic molecule, and although the Son of Man evolved from Enoch, He can be likened to you and the organic molecule from which you evolved. It is He, the glorious simulacrum of which Enoch was the cornerstone, who dwells in the eternal eighth heaven of unapproachable light, who dies in the process of involution in order to be the saviour of we in the process of evolution. He dies by releasing, from the least to the greatest, the spirits of which he is their compilation, diminishing into nothingness, as the elect and chosen on who he had developed are reborn on earth.

Enoch the cornerstone of the great simulacrum was the least in the body of the great simulacrum and was the first to be reborn on earth in his chosen host body, the man Jesus, who was obedient to his indwelling spirit. From the Book of Enoch the prophet 108: 11-13; “And now I will summons the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of light, and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who, in the flesh were not recompensed with such honour as their faithfulness deserved. And I will bring forth in shining light those who have loved My holy name (Who I Am,) and I will seat each one on the throne of his honour. And they shall be resplendent for times without number.”
 
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URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
My suggestion is that anyone who is struggling with how to worship God and His Son Jesus Christ would find it helpful to read the first chapter of the Gospel of John.

First chapter of John says: In the beginning was the Word, [Jesus].
According to Psalm [90v2] God is from everlasting: meaning God had No beginning, no start. So the only one that existed before the beginning was God. Jesus [Word] was Not before the beginning. According to Rev 3v14 B Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God. Jesus is 'firstborn' in the heavens according to Col 1v15. God is un-begotten.

In the first chapter of John in verse 18 John continues writing that 'No man has seen God at any time' [Ex 33v20], and John knew people saw or did see Jesus.

In the first chapter of John in verse 34 John bare record, or for the record, John writes that Jesus is the Son of God.

In the first chapter of John in verse 49 John writes that Nathanael also believes Jesus to be the Son of God.

In the first chapter of John in verse 51 B John concludes referring to Jesus as Son of man.

P.S.
If I may add Jesus words regarding worship found at John 4vs23,24 that true worshipers should worship his God with spirit and truth.
Rev 3v12.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
First chapter of John says: In the beginning was the Word, [Jesus].
Nope! This is another false interpretation of Scripture by the universal church that was established in 325 AD, by the non-christian King Constantine.

The Logos is the divine animating principle that pervades and activates the entire universal body and all therein.

In the Beginning was the Logos and the Logos was God, all things came into existence through the Logos, and all things that exist were made by the Logos and without the Logos was not anything made that was made, and all things exist for the Logos.


quote=URAVIP2ME; According to Psalm [90v2] God is from everlasting: meaning God had No beginning, no start. So the only one that existed before the beginning was God.


Correct! The infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of origin that was torn asunder and spatially separated by the Big Bang, has evolved to become the universe and everything
that is within the universe, and without the singularity that is the Logos/God, all that was , all that Is, and all that ever will be, could not exist, for all is He, and He is one.

quote=URAVIP2ME; Jesus [Word] was Not before the beginning.

Of course he wasn’t, Jesus began his life as a human being, born of human parents 2,000 odd years ago, the 11th of the seventh born son of God, who was the Father of Adam, see Luke 3: 38.

quote=URAVIP2ME; According to Rev 3v14 B Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God. Jesus is 'firstborn' in the heavens according to Col 1v15. God is un-begotten.

Correct! The Logos God, who is the singularity in who all exists, is un-begotten. Revelation 3: 14; “This is from the Amen, the faithful and true witness, who is the origin of all God created.” Nope, can’t see nothing there about the Man Jesus.

quote=URAVIP2ME; In the first chapter of John in verse 18 John continues writing that 'No man has seen God at any time' [Ex 33v20], and John knew people saw or did see Jesus.

Correct! Which is proof positive that Jesus is not the Logos/God, who was in the beginning through who, by who, and for who, all things that were, that are, and that ever will be, exist. And John, the young beloved disciple of Jesus, knew Jesus to be a man who was glorified by Gad and is now incontestably divine.

quote=URAVIP2ME; In the first chapter of John in verse 34 John bare record, or for the record, John writes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Deuteronomy 18: 18; The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, says to Moses; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command. He will speak in my name etc. Peter confirms that Jesus was that man. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc." And the people of His day who cried out, “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord,” knew that Jesus was the fulfilment of the prophecy in Deuteronomy 18: 18.

John and the entire Jewish nation was waiting for the prophet that Our Lord God and saviour had promised that he would send in his name and speak in his name, a prophet that would be one of their own people and like Moses, would deliver them out from under the rule of their oppressors.

John the Baptist was sent by our Lord and saviour to baptise with water, which symbolized the immersion of the old animal Adamite body of man in the Baptismal waters and the rising of the new Enochian post flood body, in which the ancestral spirit of Adam had been replace by Enoch the seventh born son of God, who was the indwelling spirit that ascended to the ends of time within the post flood body of Mankind. The only exception of all mankind to have ascended to the eighth eternal heaven of Light.

We read in John 1: 35; John says in reference to his second cousin the man Jesus, “I still did not know that he was the one chosen by God. But God, who sent me to baptise with water, had said to me, You will see the spirit come down and stay on a MAN: he is the one who baptises with the Holy Spirit.

When his cousin Jesus came to the river Jordan, who John must have known very well and known also that he was greater than He, because even before he knew that His cousin was the promised one, before he even he saw the spirit descend on him in the form of a dove, he said to his cousin Jesus, “No! Do not ask me to baptise you, for it is you who should baptise me. But Jesus said to him, “Let it be this way.” And as he rose from his immersion, John saw the spirit descend upon him, and then understood, After hearing the voice saying “You are my beloved in whom I am pleased, Today I have become your Father,” that his cousin Jesus had been chosen as the heir and successor to the son of man, who is currently still developing within the body of mankind and will be born into the invisible fourth dimension, which co-exists within this visible three dimensional world, and it is he to whom all the sins of the body in which he develops are inscribed, who descends through time and enters the first temple (The Body of Jesus) where he is treated with outrage and lifted up upon a tree, and when the veil of that temple is torn, the spirit of our God and saviour is poured out as fire on the heads of all they who believed his words as spoken through his obedient servant Jesus. Of course John the Baptist, was to later doubt if his cousin Jesus was indeed the promised Messiah, when he sent his disciples to Jesus to ask if he really were the promised one, or if they had to wait for another? CONTINUED:
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
quote=URAVIP2ME; In the first chapter of John in verse 49 John writes that Nathanael also believes Jesus to be the Son of God.

Correct! In verse 45; Philip found his brother Nathanael and told him that they had found the man that Moses wrote about in the book of the Law and whom the prophets wrote about, and he was the man Jesus son of Joseph from Nazareth. Moses wrote about him in Deuteronomy 18: 18; and Isaiah wrote about him in Isaiah 42: 1; The Lord says, “Here is my servant, whom I strengthen--- the one I have chosen, with whom I am pleased. I have filled him with my spirit, and he will bring Justice to every Nation.”

Jesus is the Son of Our lord God and saviour, “The Son of Man,” who is the most high in the singularity that is the one true God. It was after Jesus had been brought to perfection and had learnt to be obedient to his indwelling spirit, That our saviour declared him to high priest in the line of succession to Melchizedek, and chose him as his heir and successor, when he rose from the Baptismal waters, with these words, “You are my beloved in whom I am well pleased, Today, I have become your Father.” See the more ancient authorities of Like 3: 22; before they were corrupted, and Hebrew 5: 5-10.

quote=URAVIP2ME; In the first chapter of John in verse 51 B John concludes referring to Jesus as Son of man.

No, John refers to Jesus who is referring to the ascending and descending spirit on the Son of Man.

quote=URAVIP2ME; P.S. If I may add Jesus words regarding worship found at John 4vs23,24 that true worshipers should worship his God with spirit and truth.
Rev 3v12.

Matt 4: 16; so they will see the good things you do and praise your Father in heaven. 5: 48; You must be perfect just as you Father in heaven is perfect. 6: 1; If you do these things publicly, you will receive no reward from your Father in heaven. 6: 4; Pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what you do in private will reward you. 6: 8; Your Father already knows what you need before you ask him. 6: 9; Our Father who is in heaven, etc. 6: 14; Your Father in heaven will also forgive you. 6: 15; Then your Father will forgive the wrongs that you have done. 6: 18; Only your Father will know and your Father will reward you. 6: 26; Your Father in heaven takes care of them. 6: 32; Your Father in heaven knows that you need all these things. I think that what our Brother Jesus is saying to us, is that we should pray to our Father in heaven and that it is our father in Heaven who will either reward of punish us.
 
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URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
John 1v1 has Jesus as the 'Word' LOGOS or as God's spokesman.

Jesus was 'with' God in the beginning. Not 'with' God before the beginning.
Only God was before the beginning as Psalm 90v2 means.
According to Rev 3v14 the first heavenly creation was Jesus.
[the heavenly world was created before the material world]
Before being sent to earth Jesus was 'firstborn' in the heavens. Col 1v15

Acts 28v6 has the letter 'a' inserted. John 1v1 does not have the letter 'a' inserted before God. Doesn't the same Greek grammar rule apply to both Acts 28v6 and John 1v1?
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
John 1v1 has Jesus as the 'Word' LOGOS or as God's spokesman.

Jesus was 'with' God in the beginning. Not 'with' God before the beginning.
Only God was before the beginning as Psalm 90v2 means.
According to Rev 3v14 the first heavenly creation was Jesus.
[the heavenly world was created before the material world]
Before being sent to earth Jesus was 'firstborn' in the heavens. Col 1v15

Acts 28v6 has the letter 'a' inserted. John 1v1 does not have the letter 'a' inserted before God. Doesn't the same Greek grammar rule apply to both Acts 28v6 and John 1v1?

John 1v1 has Jesus as the 'Word' LOGOS or as God's spokesman.
That is a false interpretation of God's word by the universal church that was founded in 325 AD, by the non-christian King Constantine, and that church cannot even understand the plain and simple things revealed in scripture, let alone the deep hidden mysteries. The Logos was in the beginning and the Logos was God, and the Logos was not Jesus.

quote=URAVIP2ME; Jesus was 'with' God in the beginning. Not 'with' God before the beginning.

In the Logos was life or a supreme personality of Godhead, and He was the "Light of Man." Do you know the Name of the light bearer, who lights the way for every person that comes into the world, and believe me, His name is not Jesus.

quote=URAVIP2ME; Only God was before the beginning as Psalm 90v2 means.

Psalms 90: 2; “Before you created the world, you were eternally God, and will be God forever.
So according to psalms 90: 2; God has no beginning or end. When Scripture speaks of “The Beginning,” It is referring to the beginning of this three dimensional world.

quote=URAVIP2ME; According to Rev 3v14 the first heavenly creation was Jesus.
[the heavenly world was created before the material world]
Before being sent to earth Jesus was 'firstborn' in the heavens. Col 1v15

To answer this, one would have to go into a detailed explanation of the eternal cyclic universe and how each period of universal activity comes to its end when the entire universe, with the intellect that had evolved within that cycle, is condensed back into the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity, which is in the beginning of this three dimensional world, not some new beginning, But “The Beginning,” before "Mother Space and Father Time" were separated from their eternal embrace.

But I haven’t got time tonight, and the wife and I are going away for a few weeks, so this may, or may not be the last post that I make in this particular forum for a while.

In the beginning was the Logos and the Logos was God and in him was Life, and that life was the “Light Of Man.” The Omega, who is the Wisdom, knowledge and insight that is gained from the body of the Most High in the creation, which in this cycle of universal activity is mankind, and the Omega is the Alpha of the resurrected universal body, who evolves to become the Omega of that cycle: God Is all and in all and God is One in whom all exist.

He is the First and the Last, the Beginning and End, the Alpha and Omega, The Father and the Son, who is the singularity in who all exist.

quote=URAVIP2ME; Acts 28v6 has the letter 'a' inserted. John 1v1 does not have the letter 'a' inserted before God. Doesn't the same Greek grammar rule apply to both Acts 28v6 and John 1v1?

Nope! John 1: 1; Is in reference to the Logos who is God, (Notice the capital G) while in Acts 28: 6; the people of Malta who worshiped many gods, after seeing Paul shake off, into the fire, a snake which had bitten him, and seeing that he had suffered no after effects, believed that he might have been A god, (Notice the small G).
 
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URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
S-word-

'Who' capitalized the letter 'G' at John 1v1 and who did not capitalize the lower case letter 'g' at Acts 28v6 when the same Greek grammar rule applies to both verses?

In Greek grammar is there a difference in the upper and lower case in those two verses?
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
S-word-

'Who' capitalized the letter 'G' at John 1v1 and who did not capitalize the lower case letter 'g' at Acts 28v6 when the same Greek grammar rule applies to both verses?

The translators of the Greek Gospels into English, who understood that John 1: 1; Is in reference to the Logos who is God. While in Acts 28: 6; the people of Malta who worshiped many gods, after seeing Paul shake off, into the fire, a snake which had bitten him, and seeing that he had suffered no after effects, believed that he might have been A god,

What a shame that you don't have the capacity to understand that also.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
S-word-

Since the 'same' Greek grammar rule applies in both verses, then to be consistent then both need the letter 'a' or both do not .

The translators choose to insert the 'a' or leave out the 'a'.

Since the same grammar rule applies at Acts as to John, then the 'a' should also appear at John.

Does a Greek language teacher have the capacity to understand Greek grammar rules?
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
S-word-

Since the 'same' Greek grammar rule applies in both verses, then to be consistent then both need the letter 'a' or both do not .

The translators choose to insert the 'a' or leave out the 'a'.

Since the same grammar rule applies at Acts as to John, then the 'a' should also appear at John.

Does a Greek language teacher have the capacity to understand Greek grammar rules?

It doesn't apply in both sentences, one refers to the beginning when there was nothing but the one true God, "In the Beginning was God," nothing else but God. The other refers to any of the many gods that were worshiped by the heathen, and they thought that Paul was a god."

Discussion on that subject is now closed, you must believe what every you wish to believe matey, even though you are in error.
 
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